Zoomer or anyone else that knows air compressors

[Jaybird]

Rooster,
Do you have anything more to offer on pneumatics? (one raised eyebrow)

Or is this poke a hole in Jaybird's advise? I was simply trying to be of some help...of course common sense tells me that if a guy has a 1cfm leak, it would leak all day long and perhaps he would only piss away $250.00 a year on it...since the guy is smart enough to turn it off at night.
Problem is, an audible leak will be more than a 1cfm leak.

Glad you got it fixed, Ivan.

 

[Rooster]

LMAO (shaking head) :p

 

[Milk]

Dont make me separate you girls.

 

[junkjeeps]

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be the check valve on top of the tank. It had trash in it and was leaking back through the comp. head and back to the needle valve by the on/off pressure switch. Not to mention the belt squealing when the motor would kick on and try to overcome the tank pressure with no check valve to hold it back. I replaced the pressure switch before I figured out it was the check valve. NAPA has a pretty good selection of compressor parts.

 

[motometal]

It's very annoying to not have air in the tank when you need it. 

Jaybird, I value your opinion, but you confuse the crap outta me when you rant about wasted energy, then suggest that I drain all the air out (which I spent $$$ to compress) when I am done using the compressor, only to have to spend more energy pumping the thing up again next time Billy comes by asking me to firm up the tire on his Huffy. :think:

My Sam's Club Coleman 5 hp 220 V conventional (oil) compressor can sit for a week with the power off and lose only a few psi.  That's my favorite feature of the compressor!  For some reason, if you leave the pressure regulator turned way down, it will leak a bit, but I usually have this set to max psi anyway.

My advice for the day...don't buy a $10 air hose from a discount store-spend the money and get a quality hose, it's worth it.  I ended up with a 20' self coiling hose and it works great.  Flexible when cold, and it always coils back up no matter how far you stretch it out. :yeehaw:

 

[Jaybird]

Well, if you don't have the proper filtration and drain equipment on your compressor, the only alternative is to drain it of the moisture manually.
And yes, it is expensive to do so. That should be a factor when you decide to buy proper compressor equipment or not. Perhaps the loss of money it takes to keep your tank emptied of water would justify buying a proper drain. If you never drain your tank, I garantee it's full of rust, as is your total system.

And when your compressor looses very little air, it's due to having your system intact..i.e. no leaks.
Even when your system has no leaks, you should consider a good filtration system. Not only does compression of air condense water, but it also places compounds, such as hydrocarbons, into the compressed air that can and will attack the rubber of your hose, o-ring seals of tools, etc... Let alone the damage that oxides from the rust cause.
Also, you have an oil compressor....the seals will eventually wear on this type of compressor and will allow oil to get into the system. Compressor oil is very corrosive and will eventually play heck on your hoses and tools.

The key to good air is proper plumbing, good filtration, and good drainange.

BTW..those stiff plastic self-coilers will really get brittle after being exposed to hydrocarbons long enough.
But, it matter not the type of hose you use....if your system is not equipped properly no hose can take it long. You can have a perfectly good system that has no leaks at all, yet you still loose air pressure....this is probably due to the hose leaking air through osmosis. The inside of the hose is being attacked by chemical compounds that your compressor gave it.

People who need clean air no matter what understand these things.
CMM (coordinate measuring machines) use air driven bearings and it is imperitive they have clean dry air to be precise. Compressors themselves that create high end cfm (50,000cfm) need to have clean dry air for their controls, which are totally air driven.
Jet looms in the textile industry also must have clean dry air to fucntion. As well as cereal mfg's that make your Cherrios.
Paint shops that have a clue...(many really dont) demand clean dry air as well.
It's like anything else, you can have some sort of machine and it may get by for you, but sometimes you need to improve on it's equipment to have it perform to the maximum.

*note: 40micron filters supplied by some mfg's dont cut it. They rid your system of 0 water, 0 oil, 0 hydrocarbons and other airborne chemicals, and only get rid of solid particulates that are 40 microns in size or more. They are designed to get rid of only what you can see (out of sight out of mind mentality) since 40 microns is the smallest particle we can see with the human eye.
Only sub-micronic, coalescing filtration will help anything.

 

[Milk]

You get an F for that post Jaybird.

There was not one ounce of smack in it! At least, none that I could see as I skimmed after I saw CMM or whatever it was.

What website did you get that from JB?

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by Milk
You get an F for that post Jaybird.

What website did you get that from JB?

JC&PNN??

 

[Jaybird]

No website, I only am giving up what I know about the subject.

 

[motometal]

The self coiling airhose actually only cost $15.  The supplier claims that one of their guys has had a similar one for years and it still coils right back up when released.  We all know that it's just down right embarassing when your hose doesn't coil back up after it is extended for "use".  It tends to drag around on the floor, get tripped on, dirty, etc. :o

Anyway, if my air hose lasts a year for that price, I will be happy...made in USA to boot.

Air compressor oil corrosive?  Really?  It's just 30 wt. non detergent oil...what the heck?  Sounds like good lube for air tools to me.

My "system" consists of the air compressor, and the hose.  that's it.  I thought about running pvc around the garage, but decided instead to just buy enough air hose to reach out into the yard.  Less chance of leaks this way.  I open the drain on the bottom a few times a year, and a couple oz. of water comes out.  No big deal.

Recently at my dad's farm I was using his (crappy) air compressor, and noticed it sloshed when I wheeled it around.  There was about a quart of water and compressor oil in the tank.  The tank doesn't have a drain!  After discussing this with him a bit, he had no idea what I was talking about, with the draining of the tank.  We discussed the mode of failure of his last (crappy) air compressor...you guessed it, the bottom rusted out of the tank.  He doesn't really feel too bad about this, considering the old one lasted about 30 years, on a farm where it's used on a regular basis.  His "new" one cost probably $50 - $100 at an auction, and will probably last many years, with or without my help draining the tank.

I guess to me this is a bit like the o-ring chain debate.  There are reasonable limits to maintenance for each person and their equipment, and preferances.

 

[Jaybird]

Originally posted by motometal
I guess to me this is a bit like the o-ring chain debate.  There are reasonable limits to maintenance for each person and their equipment, and preferances.

Scott, I'll have to agree with that 100%.

However, the ring chain thing doesn't fit....maintenance is the same for ring or non. (had to poke that sore, dint ya) :)

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by motometal
I thought about running pvc around the garage, but decided instead to just buy enough air hose to reach out into the yard

My garage is 30x40 so I am glad I have hookups. I have 5 hookups and it was piped in with steel pipe.

Ivan

 

[Tony Eeds]

Originally posted by motometal
I thought about running pvc around the garage, but decided instead to just buy enough air hose to reach out into the yard.  Less chance of leaks this way.  I open the drain on the bottom a few times a year, and a couple oz. of water comes out.  No big deal.

Scott, this has been brought up in another thread and VD even came up with a link ....

DO NOT use PVC for air lines! :| They can explode at any time. They are a time bomb waiting to reach out and touch you in a bad way!

 

[Jaybird]

Very good point, Tony!

Filters and oilers are also of concern. Ever notice that some of them have a metal cage surrounding them?

The ultimate system would be plumbed in stainless. Black pipe is most common, but is a great place for oxides to form.

Ivan, if I were you, I'd pipe in a drip leg on your sytem. A low point of pipe that has a ball valve at the end. The moisture will collect there and you can easily rid it with the ball valve. Keep it lower than the exit of the tank, just after the tank exit, and it will help to keep the water from collecting in the tank itself.

BTW...timer drains that plug into the wall are not expensive and will open briefly to let moisture out. Replace the ball valve with a timer drain and you should never have any problems with water, in a garage system.

 

[motometal]

Ivan, I have garage envy.  Mine is only the standard 24 x 24.  Makes it a bit of a challenge fitting in 4 bikes, a sled, a car, a full size truck, and all my other junk!

So what's the deal with pvc?  The heavy walled kind is easilly rated to hold normal air pressure.  

Maybe another good way to do it would be to find a deal on some high quality flexible braded line.  Sounds like that's starting to replace pvc in many houses for water line.

 

[Tony Eeds]

Scot

Re the PVC ... Don't remember exactly. Do a search under VDs name and you should find a post about a year ago about this subject. I has schedule 20 lines in my cabinet shop and they were a constant problem. I never had one explode, but it was enough of a problem that it was in all the millwork trade publications 20+ years ago.

Re Jay's comments about dry and clean air ... I want to ditto everything he has said. I have had numerous tools ruined by wet and dirty air. When I build the DRN Dream Shop at Casa De Gattos, it will have and IR upright that is rated for 100% Duty Cycle and be properly plumbed and have all the filters and collectors necessary to keep the air "reasonably" dry and clean. I don't need hospital quality to run my tools.

Re oil for my tools ... I use cherry juice most of the time for my air drills and sanders and Duo-Fast Oil for all of my nailers.

If you really want fancy ... double up your line layout and hoses and dedicated one set for tools. Hook an oiler up on that set of lines. Be sure to have a different color hose for clean air and label or paint all your connections. :thumb:

 

[biglou]

lol, this is kinda like me asking if I needed more RAM to play games on my computer. Next thing you know, you're consulting with the head of the National Pneumatics Association, taking out a second mortgage for those gold-plated, unobtanium lines and connectors, etc... :laugh:

 

[Tony Eeds]

Originally posted by BigLou
unobtanium

Lou ... Ya blew it, Bud. We are gonna have to send the Black Helicopters in now. That metal has been an unverified rumor for many years now. :laugh:

 

[truespode]

Originally posted by Jaybird
Ivan, if I were you, I'd pipe in a drip leg on your sytem. A low point of pipe that has a ball valve at the end. The moisture will collect there and you can easily rid it with the ball valve. Keep it lower than the exit of the tank, just after the tank exit, and it will help to keep the water from collecting in the tank itself.

Thanks for the tips.

I have a thing off to the side of the compressor (keep in mind this is a big black max 5hp standup unit) that has a glass jar like thing with what looks like a white filter in it. What is that?

Last night I found the manual for it while digging through the garage (I bought all this from the previous owner of the house) so I guess I could RTFM :)

Ivan