Gold Valve Spec's - Race Tech or Fredette ???

[KruncH]

I'm considering having Jeff Fredette configure some Race Tech Gold Valves for me. He said he'll take the usual info. like riding style, skill level, weight, etc... and configure the stacks for me. All I have to do is install them. Has anyone had Jeff revalve their forks? What did you think over all? Are Gold valves even worth it?

The other option is to use the info from Race Tech's website and configure them myself. I assume the spec's Jeff uses would be better then Race Tech's spec's since all he deals with is KDX's.

Any $.02
Thanks.

 

[dirt bike dave]

Even though I've never ridden a Fredette valved bike, I would go with the Fredette specs, especially if you ride in the woods. After some experimentation on KDX250's and KLX300's my buddy and I felt that the best results were using much less high speed compression and a little more low speed compression damping than RT recommends.

 

[kaw Bill]

I don't think I've ever heard anything good about race techs shim placement specs for the KDX. I think KruncH is right. there's too much high speed damping. I had Fredette stack mine for me and am fairly happy compared to the stock setup. I ride in a very rocky area though and still would prefer it to be a little more plush. If I was going to do it all over again I would send my forks to MX TECH. Nothing but great reviews on the way He sets up the KDX.

kaw Bill

 

[spooky]

I have a new KDX 220 that I started riding with last year in the stock form. My buddy has a KTM 200 that we would switch off and trade bikes occasionally. Well I was thinking off selling the KDX and riding for the pumpkin brigade. As a last ditch effort I called Freddette and he said I bet your bike is doing this and I bet it is doing that. Well he knew exactly what I was experiencing. He said hold off selling your bike and send me your shock (revalve & different spring) and I will ship you some different front springs along with my stack of the gold valve. Needless to say I am keeping the old girl. My KDX may still be a bit of an under-dog compared to a Katoomer 200 overall, but I like the bike alot now. I am a B-Vet rider for what thats worth.

 

[MN KDXer]

I had bought the GV's from FRP, and the stacks were set up EXACTLY as if I had simply read the RT instructions. The only difference was that FRP kept the extra shims, so I was somewhat limited in the amount of experimentation I could do.

GV action..... I was not especially happy with the forks with the FRP/RT settings. The fork seemed to have good high speed and low speed action, but the transition was too aggressive. I tried several stack variations to eliminate the mid-speed harshness Some guys report better action with a straight rate stack, while I found good results by using a 13mm crossover shim rather that the RT recommended 11mm.

BUT, very important to remember- The KDX fork is only going to be just so good, period. But, also, it will be remarkably better than the stocker.

Good luck with it!

 

[Tantrum]

Gold Valves are a decent product, but, they get most of their sales from advertising. Have you considered looking at Jeremy Wilkeys product? They are on the cuttin edge of valving, and can produce a better tailored product for your specific needs. I have his valves in my forks and I am amazed at the amount of control I gained. His site address http://www.mx-tech.com/core.asp

If you get a chance, call Jeremy at his shop. His number is 815.936.6277 in Illinois. Jeremy will talk to you in person and tell you all about his product and why it might fit your needs better than gold valves. Im not so sure you could get that kind of personal service from the designer of the gold valve.

Good luck.
B.

 

[RTL]

This is an excellent topic since I'm trying to make the same decision. I know that eventully I want Jer @ MX-Tech to hook me up with the 'works' as he has done for Fred T. Thew works includes revalving, mid-valves, rebound adjusters and hardened componenets. The problem is it costs some serious coin, around $1000 from my calculations.

So, while I save money and convince my wife I must have Jer's stuff, I at least need to change the springs and intall GV's. The springs are not an issue, the issue is do I have FRP install my GV's with his stacks or do I order the kit from RT and do it myself. I think the shock is going to get MX-Tech valving for around $225. I'm not confortable messing with the shock at this point in my tuning career. However, FRP will install the GV's with his supposed custome stacks for around $180 plus shipping. That is cheap!

OR

Do I order the RT Kit complete with video and do it myself. If FRP uses the RT suggested stacks, why not do it myself?

What would be nice is if some of the GV experienced home tuners could offer some of their advise on this issue. I know that there are people out there who have created their own stacks for the KDX.

 

[dirt bike dave]

Fixing your suspension is the best thing you can do to a dirt bike - too bad it gets pricey. One added cost with having someone else do your suspension is the shipping & insurance, but if the pro will do the job better than you would, it's probably worth it.

If you have never worked on forks but are fairly competent mechanically, it might take you 8-10 hours or so to revalve the forks (including pulling the suspension off the bike and putting it back on). You'll double and triple check everything, and pop the video in a few times. If you did it for a living, it would take far less time, but the first time is always gonna be slow.

The RT videos helped me a bunch, but I was lucky to have a friend around who could help me out if I got into trouble. BTW, the RT video I saw on forks used inverted Showas - not exactly the same as the KDX forks.

The shock is probably easier to do than the forks, IMO.

 

[KruncH]

RTL,
I ask Jeff the other day if he uses the spec's from RT's website and he said "NO". He uses his own "method" of configuring the stacks.

Tantrum,
I did speak with Jeremy the other day. He is VERY nice, helpful, and informative. I do believe his valving is better than RT's, I just don't want to spend that much to get it done.

MN KDXer,
You said the GV's had some harness in the mid-stroke. What I want to know is, is this harness still better than anything the stock valving offers? In other words, is the worst that the GV's offers better than the best the stock valving offers? I don't want to get something that maybe worst than what I've got now. No need to go backwards.

All this info really helps guys. Thanks a lot !!!!!!!!!

 

[Fred T]

Hey RTL

This is none of my business but here's my opinion anyway. :D If you are strapped for cash right now and you know you want to go with MX Tech in the future then begin with the end in mind. It's a waste of your money to invest in GV's with Fredette if you plan to toss them anyway. Start out by getting the right fork springs from MX Tech and call it good until you are ready to do MX tech front valving. Heck you will already have the shock done and it's nit like your forks are going to be pogo sticks or anything. You'll get there faster than by pissing away $180.00. Heck thats a 2/3 of the MX Tech front revalve. Do that first MX Tech front revalve then go back like I did and do the midvalves and rebound with a fork service job. Take things one step at a time and be headed toward your goal.

 

[MN KDXer]

Krunch,

If you install the GV stack per the RT instructions, it will most likely result in the mid-speed harshness I described. Several of us KDxers fought through that issue together a couple of years ago. I could do some digging, and see if I can find the stack I ended up with.

FRP might use something different today, buy my FRP stack in 99, was exactly per the instruction sheet. Hmmm... Maybe, somewhere along the line, I posted my stack on this board. :D

Comparison RT to stock. The RT will be head and shoulders above the stock system with the RT stacks. The bike will dive much-much less in the corners, yet gobble up bumps. However, as I stated, with the RT stacks, it's going to be a little sharp on some roots and rocks, and hammer you in those braking-roller whoops. Compared to MXT, I do not know. I've never ridden a MXT KDX. I can say this- the RM forks are much better than RT KDX forks.

The RT video is worthless for working on the KDX forks. As mentioned, it covers KYB and Showa, so it is a good reference video for some other day if you switch bikes.

But, to the good news, is that KDX forks are waaaay easy to work on. If you go to the Just KDX section, you'll see the fork tool I drew up. With that tool, a person of average mechanical ability can easily install the GV kit. Owning the KDX shop manual is also EXTREMELY helpful. Once you have it figured out, you can change the valving in 1/2 hour by pulling only the base valve out the bottom. (lay bike on side or all the oil will run out.)

Take note of this- After you get the front end sorted out, you're going to find that the shock needs some help REALLY bad. It will kick like a mean mule in the whoop sections, in which you can now rip with confidence, thanks to the improved fork. Unless Kawi has changed the shock valving, (and I doubt it since my 95 and 99 KDX were exactly the same,) there is far too much high speed valving. A friendly revalve will clear that mean streak, though. Note that I also had FRP valve the shock, but it was still too stiff and kicked in the whoops. I worked thru some valving changes and came up with a pretty good working stack.

Now the fly in the ointment. Once you have both suspensions up to stuff, the wheels and spokes will emerge as the weak links. Be ready to get the wallet open again. :(

Good luck with it! :)

 

[Tantrum]

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What he said.

B.

 

[RTL]

Fred T,

Yes, your are correct. I am probably a year away from the 'works' from Jer. So I figured until then I could learn how to work on my own suspension. I can not experiment with Jer's stuff, too complex, but I think from what I have read here I could tune the GV's. I asked Jer about my tuning the forks and he told me personally that the KDX forks were a slam dunk, even with the GV's. He said that if I wanted to learn to tune the forks the GV's would not be such a bad thing. BUT, once if go for the works, I would probably be out of my league with the mid-valves and would have to have Jer make the adjustments...

So yes, it would be a waste of 100 beans, but I would get the chance to tinker with the stacks myself. Now, as I noted, I was not too keen on farting with the shock and Sage is running that $225 special.

Thanks for you advice and insights, I appreciate it!

 

[RTL]

Hey Krunch,

Talked with Jeff today and he is sending me GV's with hiw own stack configuration. He said they were fairly easy to install if you have the correct tools. I'm going for it. Jeff also said that I could use the stock spring on the back even with my big 210lb butt. I'm not going to attack the rear until after I install the front. Many people have told me that the rear valving is not that bad stock, and that the stock rear and GV vavled front worked decently. I am a C class rider so by the time I save up for Jer's 'works' bumpsticks, I should be worthy of them!!

Jeff also mentioned that if I did it correctly I could change the valves without even changing the fork oil!:scream:

 

[Sage]

Originally posted by RTL
Jeff also mentioned that if I did it correctly I could change the valves without even changing the fork oil!:scream:

Did he tell you how? It's really easy and I think thats been overlooked around here?

 

[Braahp]

Please somoene tell us how to install the gold valves. I was just about to ship my forks off for springs and GV's but if its thast easy maybe I could do it myself. I still can't decide.....MX-Tech or Fredette. Right now its looking like Fredette just because of the big price difference.

 

[KruncH]

RTL,

Sounds good. I got the fork tool awhile back and it really helps a lot.

Sage,

Do you just lean the bike on its side so that the valve is the highest part and use an air wrench to break it loss?

Inquiring minds want to know :)

 

[RTL]

Sage, he told me I could easliy do it if I had the correct tools, but I let it go at that....

Now that I am thinking about it, how do you?

Thanks for the response.