Opening an MX park for public use-what are the pitfalls?

[skillzman1]

Just thought I'd ask if anyone out there would be familiar with the legal/business end of an open for business MX track!

I live/ride upstate NY and my buddies are in the process of opening an MX park for public use.The need is great as all the good places to ride are owned by.....'people not sensitive to our needs' :cool:
They have already gone before the village board and got their ok.....the neighbors shouldn't be a problem due to the location of the property and the amount of space they bought.

But,in the past,a few places we 'used' to ride,that were set aside for us,were closed down by new people moving in to the area and then complaining of the noise & "low class trash" that the club was entertaining($35k trucks,$10k bikes,enclosed racing trailers...poor white trash??)
As well as the typical 'tree hugger' BS that seems to be the norm nowaday's.

Anyone ever done this type of thing before?
Know of someone to contact to checkout the legal aspects of ensuring it doesn't get shut down after it's all up and running?

 

[BigStoppy]

What are the pitfalls? Even with the best intentions of running the safest track, and having everyone sign one of your 'release' waivers, the chance of being involved in a lawsuit would be too great, it would seem. I bet the liability insurance would be a major factor.

 

[TheGrinch]

Yep, I reckon being able to afford the liability insurance would be your biggest hurdle

 

[2smoke]

Insurance, noise, land zoning.......neighbours.....and you'll have to deal with situations like the friends who come along with a rider and later in the day ask for a quick lap on there mates bike....no fee paid...no waiver signed....and they prang.
Seen it.

 

[Okiewan]

From someone that puts on a large event every year? INSURANCE. It will drain you dry my friend. DirtWeek insurance goes up at least 30% per year, every year. It's the killer.

It's not the rider that will sue you either, it's their insurance company. They hate paying claims.

 

[Flyboy500]

Insurance for events ranges $600 and much < per event. If you have large events with large crowds perhaps you can offset the killer costs! Think positive and do research. What needs done to help our sport? If you had a ride event that would bring a minimum of 1000 riders at a park in one day could $15-$20 per rider cover insurance and other expenses??? I would think so....... Gotta have a kick a$$ riding area! If it's really good expect good things to happen if it isn't that good of an riding area you'll have a rough time pulling it off. As a rider ask yourself, would I come back here next weekend????? And maybe the weekend after.......... FUN FACTOR! Look at the Badlands and Paragon Park. How are they doing it? I know where there is a 25 acre track for lease for $295/month and 15% of income and I just can't see it making enough to keep it running. ( It was at one time called Tappen Lake Motorsports Track) Success will come in large #'s and alot of work! Must have good trail riding for all skill levels and ages. Good Luck Don't forget the Quads and the trail maintenance that comes with those ditch diggers!

 

[Okiewan]

Where did you get your $600 per event number?

 

[skillzman1]

If I recall correctly,they said something about talking to a lawyer and not having a waiver to sign.."pre-admission of negligence" ..or something like that?

They have been speaking to some of the other tracks in the somewhat near vicinity,and they mentioned making all 3-4 tracks into one large club.This way you would have way more members to deal with -with varying degrees of 'pull' in the community,should it come to an 'us vs. them' type of situation!

I mentioned the insurance thing to them...they've supposedly checked into it...and are planning on going ahead with the project!

They run their own excavation/construction business so equipment should be a non-issue.
They bought 55 acres of land to build the site on...the 35 acres next to this parcel is something they already own...and most of the neighbors ride in some fashion so that should be ok.
As well as it's in a small town and the business it would bring in for the local stores ,restuarants,campgrounds,motels,etc,.. should be a plus in the towns eye's!

I live in Saratoga Springs which is known for it's horse racing...and now it's casino...the people move into town every summer and take it over----which sucks if you live here---but their money is very green and so the city bends over backwards for them every year like clock work!
I would think that something like this would be of a benefit to the many rather than the few!It's been an ongoing pain the last 7-8 years to find a decent place to ride-where you are'nt trespassing,etc,..At least this provides an outlet for the hoards of people who buy these machines every year with no legal place to ride!IMO

 

[showtime586]

There are a few tracks around here that run with no insurance whatsoever. I'm guessing they believe the waiver is sufficient. I am not a lawyer, so I have no idea of exactly how valid the waiver is, or how easy it might be picked apart. I am planning on building my own personal small sx track, but I am not sure if I will allow anyone else to ride on it.

 

[JJmxr]

I have actually been kicking the idea around of opening an indoor place somewhere between Baltimore, and DC myself. I too am interested in insurance costs. As I bulid a prelim. # to see if it is a possibility I put in 8000 a year for insurance.

 

[Flyboy500]

Ohio no fee no worry??? HB286

In ohio if there is no gate fee charged then property owner is covered by House Bill 286! Even private property owners regardless if permission is granted. Article on HB286 is located on Northeast Ohio Trailriders web page. It's worth checking out! Sometimes good things happen for our sport.
House Bill 286/ House Bill 106- landowner hold-harmless bill
Department of Defense thanks NETRA for cleaning up Shenango- thank you letter

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Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles, Ohio Revised Code, Chapter 4519-
see Ohio Revised Code chapter 4519 for online details

Registration
All ORVs (off-road vehicles- ATVs, dirtbikes, snowmobiles) must be properly registered with the BMV.

Registration costs $7.25 and is good for 3 years.

The alphanumberic sticker must be affixed to your machine.

All ORV owners will need to present proof of ownership when registering their vehicle with the BMV.




Operation Regulations
An ORV may be used:


to cross a highway other than a limited access highway or freeway
on county and township highways whenever approved by those having jurisdictional authority over them
off and alongside streets or highways from the place of unloading the vehicle to the place at which it is intended and authorized to be used
on the berm or shoulder of any highway, other than a limited access highway, or freeway when the terrain is such that the vehicle can be used safely
on the berm or shoulder of a county or township road when traveling from one area of operation to another
An ORV may NOT be used:


on any limited access highway or freeway or the right-of-way
on any private property without special permission of owner or in any nursery or planting area
on any state-controlled land or waters except those which have been posted as permitting ORVs
on track or right-of-way of any operating railroad
when carrying a loaded or un-cased firearm, bow or other hunting implement
to chase, pursue, capture or kill any animal or wildlife
from one-half hour after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise, unless displaying a lighted headlight and taillight as required under equipment regulations


Licensing and Restrictions
Persons under 16 years of age must be supervised by a licensed motor vehicle operator of at least 18 years old.

Any operator involved in a an accident resulting in personal injury, death, or property damage in excess of $100 to report it to the state highway patrol with 48 hours.



Protective Gear
No specific mention is made, although good sense predicates the use of helmet, goggles, and boots as a minimum.



Insurance
No mention is made as to whether liability insurance is required although they request you sign a document stating that you in fact DO have insurance similar to when licensing an on-road vehicle.


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Ohio House Bill 286 / Senate Bill 106
Update- 01/15/03

Passed House and Senate committees, and the Governor signed the bill on 01/08/03.
Senate Bill 106 will officially go into effect in 90 days, or April 8th, 2003.

Background-

Introduced by Representative L. George Distel (D-Ashtabula), HB286 specifies that operation of a snowmobile or all-purpose vehicles is a recreational activity subject to landowner’s immunity from liability for recreational users' injuries, otherwise called a landowner hold-harmless bill.

The intention of this bill was to amend Ohio Revised Code section 1533.18 which deals with Hunting and Fishing, but also covers recreational sports.

The House bill was merged into Senate Bill 106 so as to get it approved before the end of 2002. Both the House and Senate had passed the bill before the end of the year, and it was sent to the governor's office for approval on Dec 31st. After it's signed, it'll take 90 days to become effective.

This bill is a major step in finding property to ride on. Up to this point, landowners have been reluctant to allow ATVers, dirtbikers, and snowmobilers access to their property for fear of being sued in the event someone should get injured. SB106 provides the immunity from liability those landowners needed before allowing someone to ride on their land.

Although not official proof of legislation, when this bill does take effect (in April), a printed copy of the legislation available online Ohio Revised Code section 1533.18 may be enough to satisfy most landowners.

 

[TheJunkMan]

Ya know I think Nebraska has a similar law like this in effect, but do not quote me on that.

 

[rybo3]

even the most agreeable neighbors seem to chamge their tune after hearing 20, 30 or 40 dirt bikes all weekend every weekend. i believe that is what a local track where i live is going thru, among other things

i am in no way an athority on this subject, being poor white trash and all.

 

[490Dave]

Maybe the city or county gov. would be interested in helping with some of the costs, if it turns out to be a good revenue source.
Just a thought.

I just figured out why they always build exclusive neighborhoods next to MX tracks. Its the same reason tornadoes hit mobilehome parks......it's only natural

 

[skillzman1]

even the most agreeable neighbors seem to chamge their tune after hearing 20, 30 or 40 dirt bikes all weekend every weekend. i believe that is what a local track where i live is going thru, among other things

i am in no way an athority on this subject, being poor white trash and all.

Ha ha !!At the last track we rode at we actually had this pompous clown stop and shout/curse the track operator(female) out...that's where I got the 'poor white trash' comment from.He said that he didn't appreciate the "low class scum element"that they were encouraging!
She said "if look across the street ..those are $35k trucks,$10k dirt bikes ..I don't call that 'low class scum!'"
I wonder what he thinks now that all the people who used to ride there 'legally' now ride all over the place!
In my mind it's kinda like the skateboarder/rollerblader types...they were always getting busted/hastled..but they kept on keepin' on...now everywhere you go they open up skate parks for them to use...........Sooner or later they will have to give a little for the good of all!IMO :cool:

 

[skillzman1]

Maybe the city or county gov. would be interested in helping with some of the costs, if it turns out to be a good revenue source.
Just a thought.

I just figured out why they always build exclusive neighborhoods next to MX tracks. Its the same reason tornadoes hit mobilehome parks......it's only natural

I like that thought!
Will have to look into that a bit more...I think they did mention something about that a whlie back.

I also appreciate the Ohio legal info...I bet there's something similar in NY...Will definately pass that info on!

Thanx all for the input!!

 

[MXTex]

I've heard of tracks operating w/o insurance too. As I understand it, the track is first Incorporated, which removes the liability from persons to the Corporation. There are tax ramifications for doing this which I don't pretend to understand. Then all operating expenses and depreciable capital are put against the Corporation; thus driving it into dept. Presumably these expenses exceed the income of the track. Employee salaries would be part of these expenses. Then when an injury occurs and a lawsuit is filed; there's simply nothing to get. The Incorporated track is in debt, and Insurance is not available. This strategy was explained to me by a lawyer. I'm sure there are many more elements required to ensure it's legitimacy. Bottom line is I would recommend retaining the services of a good lawyer in order to position yourself to be insulated from any lawsuits. It's unfortunate that we live in such a litigious society; but you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Good luck.

 

[showtime586]

Tex,
That may be why you see all of these "LLC's" showing up these days. I was told it stood for Limited Liability Corporation.

 

[Slips]

"It's not the rider that will sue you either, it's their insurance company. They hate paying claims."

I am an attorney in Texas and I enjoy seeing statements like the above. I retired early from a very large police department, going to law school while still detective. I am blessed enough to only have to work part time any more. LOL, I mention that so folks will know I really did have a job before becoming an attorney... too funny.

I do a little personal injury stuff and am starting to get more interested in track liability. The problem I see is most track owners simply don't pay enough attention on how to avoid lawsuits! More of that in a minute but first here is a little history lesson. Insurance companies made a LOT of money back in the days of rampant stock speculation. They passed on much of that to their customers. Then the market crashed and they lost tons of money. They simply had to tighten their belts. Claims they would have paid with little thought suddenly became more of an issue.

Economics dictated they do either or both of two things. They had to cut costs (including claims), raise premiums or both. Consumers are who they often must pay claims to and who pays premiums. So the consumer got hit both coming and going. And again, the base reason was because of stock speculation. Getting rich was fun while it lasted.

So what do the insurance companies do? Blame the lawyer. Think about it a second. The attorney isn't the one getting hurt and making a claim. But the insurance companies can't really blame their customers. Just blame the mailman. Much more popular than blaming the one that wrote the letter. Tort reform is all fun and games till someone loses an eye! LOL, then it's pretty sad.

Anyway, back to the legal issues. Check out the April, 2004 issue of Dirt Rider. On page 16 is an much too short article about the International Motercycle Safety Association (ISMA). They will help you keep your track running by trying to shield you from lawsuits.

Their idea is pretty slick. They cover a rider for 10k of medical insurance if they get hurt on an ISMA approved track. That insurance stacks on top of the general liability policy like you buy from one of the huge money-grabbing insurance companies. (If I sound like I dont like insurance companies in general that's not the case. They are simply huge and money-grabbing)

If a rider is injured he or she can use the medical insurance to pay the medical bills. Now that does not shield the track from liability from doing something stupid like building a blind jump right where other riders are trying to exit the track and land on top of them... I actually saw that last night. That's simply a case of stupidity on the track owners part and no one can insure against that.

The beauty, as I see it, of IMSA is a rider who is simply riding fast and hard, falls and busts his arm has no real reason to sue if his meds are covered. The track wasn't negligent, he or she signed a waiver (In Texas if someone is 51% or more contributorily negligent they take nothing) and there is no harm, no foul and most beautiful, no lawsuit.

There are some requirements to getting the IMSA endorsement. According to the article only 25% of the tracks that apply are granted the insurance.

On page 122 of the same Dirt Rider there is a good article on safe track design with ideas by some of the brightest minds in motocross construction and riding. You might want to consider some of those ideas.

Bottom line, no one wants to see a track closed due to a lawsuit. On the other hand, there ARE ways to protect from being sued. Reasonable track design and safety, waivers are parts of the solution. I believe people love to ride and as the sport matures many safety measures that are ignored today will be an accepted part of the sport soon.

Anyway, I have been waiting to weigh in on this very important matter and felt this was a good time. I am not sure anyone will get anything from it but me, however I enjoyed typing this out!

Feel free to email me for a phone number if you or anyone wants to talk track liability. I very much want to protect our tracks! I love to ride and had a blast riding on my local track along with my 14 year old boy last nite!

I am willing to look into any issues I can. I also know some excellent attorneys here in the North Texas area and if I dont know the answers I can find out in many cases.

 

[skillzman1]

Thanks a bunch..this is exactly the info I was inquiring about!

I am going to pass this info on to my buddies..this should be more info ..from a legal standpoint..than they have already obtained!

It's funny ...because they said the other day when we were talking that 'there's gotta be a few lawyers that ride that could help out for the good of us all'!!
How true !!

 

[Slips]

Glad I could be of a bit of service. There are many personal injury lawyers that ride bikes. Most are streetbikers though. Think about it a second and it makes perfect sense :) A large number of personal injury attorneys are a bit "different" when u get to know them. They sometimes wore their hair long during Nam, dont like the corporate metality and usually the good ones will fight to the death for the little guy against the corporate types.

It's truly a mongoose vs. cobra relationship for some of them. Tell your buddies to get networked up in NY a bit with some lawyers. Call the bar association in a few towns and ask who rides Harleys. Those guys ( and gals ) will know the lawyers that ride dirt bikes. Then pitch to a few of them. You might get someone with some time on their hands who takes a real interest.

One more thing. Some attorneys have big bucks at times and if you get a couple of them really interested they can make some great partners, silent or otherwise.

Give me a yell if I can be of help. I am not one of the rich ones though. Just make enough to live nice and ride :)

 

[pyrofreak]

Where in New York you thinking about setting this up?

 

[skillzman1]

The small town I grew up in-Corinth.
It's about 45 min. North of Albany,NY...get off exit 16 of I-87N and go about 10 miles or so.

 

[skillzman1]

Slips-I am grateful for all the info....I like your line of thinking......I stand corrected on my view of lawyers LOL !This is an excellent approach to getting legally established!
Build your fort before the battle begins!!