"Self Employed"

[ironworker]

business is a tough place in a world full of soaring prices for anything from workmans comp, general liability insurance and material prices which change on a weekly basis. I am half owner of a Structural Steel fabrication company in Calif., we currently have 17 loyal hard working employees both in the shop and we are union Ironworkers in the field.
weekly payroll is around $35,000 Insurances run approx. $28,000 a month and general overhead another $45,000 anyone who has been in business for them selfs knows how hard it is to keep that kind of cash flow running through the bank 24/7.

We have 8 separate contracts on going as this time, each contract with a separate owner architect ect, this makes for 8 separate clients to answer to daily, the funny thing about being a sub contractor is that you perform your work per the schedule given however you are never paid on time, with almost 1/2 Mil. out past 60 days you can understand why I am a candidate for a heart attack at an early age.

as I watch my employees share stories and laugh with and at the other as they work it makes me almost envious that I sit in my office struggling to make it all happen, as a matter of fact a lot of time I wish I were them.

Call after call someone needs something added, deleted or changed, not tomorrow, today.

For those who are like me I always hold a high regard because I know what it takes to make it happen, but I hold the highest regard for those smart enough not get themselves in so deep they simply could never walk away.

It could be that owning a store or having a bike repair shop is easier but some how I just don't think so.

Anyone else own there own business and think like me or do I need to see a shrink?

Sorry this thread was so long I just needed to vent, I wish it would all go away today.

Rich

 

[YZ165]

I've never been in your shoes, but I'm trying to get there........:think:......Maybe I should re-think the whole "I wanna own my own shop" thing. I've alway's worked for others, and about 6-months ago, I opened my own shop. So far so good, but I definatly don't have the overhead issues you do. I'm the only employe, and my shop rent is only $400.00. Maybe small is not such a bad thing. With each expansion comes more overhead and more problems. Good luck to you Ironworker, keep your head up. You create jobs for american's, and there's something to be said for that. My hat is off to you.

YZ165

 

[ironworker]

YZ165, don't get me wrong, if you got what it takes to run a business then more power to you, I believe that for the first couple years any new business owner should definitely keep it small just so you have time to learn the major pitfalls that come with the game.

Don't re think your business, just use your head and you will be fine.

Today is a new day and I feel great, my major point was this: I hear at least once a week someone tell me how great it must be to have a big company and sit up in the office telling others what to do with absolutely no boss, They couldn't be more wrong.

BTW, how the hell did you get 2000 Vcash? :ohmy: you steal it from Okie? :)
That man has all the cash!
Talk to you soon


Richard.

 

[YZ165]

Getting vCash is easy, just don't bet against RC or Bubba. LOL Okie might have had a pile of vCash stashed away, but bh took it all away monday. he's got like 300,000 now. He dosen't bet against RC or Bubba either!

On the business thing, I'm giving it my best shot. If I fail, I'll just go back to work for someone else. At least I won't go through life wishing I had tried, and never did. YZ165

 

[ironworker]

YZ165, I forgot to ask but I am very curious, what kind of shop you have, is it a bike shop? or whats your flavor of labor?
Rich

 

[YZ165]

If it's broke, I can fix it. Mostly auto and light trucks. Quite a few bikes and the occasional vacuum! :aj:

 

[ironworker]

Vacums too? LOL

Cool man, heh, regular all around mechanic, I like it.

 

[tnrider]

hi ironworker,

i know your pain - i "had" a high-tech business a number of years ago. you start the business doing something you love, grow it to the point where you no longer get to do what you love and try to do the right thing by your employees. it is a tough and lonely world - where everyone thinks you are rich while the reality is you often pay your employees more than you get yourself.

i had many opportunities drop in my lap during the "dot.com boom" but i just said been-there and done-that... the amount of work involved in running a business is not worth trading the salary being an employee for the headache of running a small company. i will only ever consider running a business again if it has a great possibility for "life altering" money - anything less is just hard work -- only other that i would consider is a "hobby" business.

good luck, get tough with your accounts and make them pay up - save the money from the shrink and use it for a new bike -- oh, and take some mornings off for some 1-on-1 time with that bike. while it is hard to take the time off - one of my best memories from my entrepreneurial days was blowing off a morning and going out chasing whitetail deer with my dad on my grandmother's farm.

 

[Smitty]

Hey Ironworker,

I'm an Office Enginner for a nationwide contractor, i.e. I'm the one giving you hell everyday. Too be honest it's no fun from this side either. I know when I'm putting somebody in a bind, but there's usually not a way around it. Anyway, keep after 'em with those "Extra Work Tickets"!!!

BTW, I need six RTU frames fabbed up and delivered before Wednesday or I'm holding your draw.....

 

[Patman]

It's pretty amazing how quickly the invoice gets paid when a key piece of the puzzle just happens to be waiting on the $$ to come in. Happens to us all the time, some clients get to run out because they have proven they are good for it and future work as well and others just need that little kick in the pants every so often. A few get out of sorts over it and leave only to find out other companies like to be paid as well. Suggesting 19% interest on past due accounts also makes somebody that owes ya' $120K or so really wake up.

 

[truespode]

I am just now starting with a small business. Although I work for the company I am responsible for growing my business and basically run it like I'm the owner. I am just lucky enough to have expenses paid by the company (phone, internet, etc.).

We do not do business with some school districts b/c of how hard it is to get paid. Sometimes you have to fire the customer if it hurts your business.

Ivan

 

[CAL]

hi ironworker,

i know your pain - i "had" a high-tech business a number of years ago. you start the business doing something you love, grow it to the point where you no longer get to do what you love and try to do the right thing by your employees. it is a tough and lonely world - where everyone thinks you are rich while the reality is you often pay your employees more than you get yourself.

That is it exactly!

My dad owns/runs a plumbing contracting business and my father in law "used" to own/run a high voltage electrical/powerline construction company. It got to the point where he wasn't making anything...his union employees were bringing in $50k to $100k a year working half the hours he was. He is an elder at our church and still has 2 of his 4 kids at home and one in a $20k / year Christian college. He just couldn't continue. So he closed his doors and now works for the Electric company that he used to be contracted through with his business. Now he works 7:00 to 3:30 M-F, has paid vacation days, paid insurance, 401k, and says his hardest decision of the day is figuring out where they will eat lunch! It's a HUGE change that he is trying to get used to, but he has so much more free time and is making good money in the end.

It makes me wonder how these large companies can provide so much for their employees, when these small business owners can't even break even.

My wife works for Cingular wireless and the benefits are crazy. The insurance is awesome and they are giving us $5000 towards our adoption. She works 28 hours a week and brings home just a little less than me. I just don't get it. :think:

BTW, ironworker...I'm the architect that makes you subs wait on your pay requests! :bang:

 

[Tony Eeds]

It's pretty amazing how quickly the invoice gets paid when a key piece of the puzzle just happens to be waiting on the $$ to come in. Happens to us all the time, some clients get to run out because they have proven they are good for it and future work as well and others just need that little kick in the pants every so often. A few get out of sorts over it and leave only to find out other companies like to be paid as well. Suggesting 19% interest on past due accounts also makes somebody that owes ya' $120K or so really wake up.

Pat: I know from where you speak, but it is not always that easy in the field.

Richard: I know your pain. I am possibly the only Architect in practice that has been both a general contractor and a sub-contractor as well.

I had my own millwork shop for a number of years with 8 employees at one point. One evening I told them that there would be a meeting after work on Friday. What they didn't know was that I was pissed about all the lost time that seemed to creep in as soon as I left the shop. On Friday, we had a looooong talk and drank a few brews. End result was that I fired every last one of them that night and told them if they wanted a job based upon my "rules" to reapply on Monday. Only one guy showed up. He was my saw man and about the only one I could not replace.

As a general contractor, I did everything from layout to project management, but spent much of my time coordinating the "madness" called construction management. It can be worse than herding cats, especially when you have a flaky architect and/or owner.

Now I am an architect and lament the fact that there are some of the lamest people I know "acting" as general contractors. Many have truly become pencil pushers and never even confront construction issues, passing everything on to the "design team". I watch sub-contractors get screwed by the system daily, squeezed between schedules and payments. An 8 million dollars project I finished in April "may" close next week and the subs will finally get their 10% retainage. Never mind that some of the subs have been off the project for more than a year. :think: An aside, but one of the best performing subs on the job is the steel fabricator that completed the bridge between our parking garage and residential tower. His wife/office manager called me to try and understand the closing schedule in order to hang on as long as possible and not file a lien on the project. I gave her all the info she needed and told her to file. The GC had paid the retainage of two subs that they “needed” following completion (elevator contractor and security/fire detection) but were stonewalling the rest. Never mind that the subs got jerked around by the completion schedule and an incompetent superintendent. Never mind that I had to stay on the job 4 days a week in order to assure my owner completion of the project on time. We had to have a CO by close of business on March 31, 2004. The GC “proudly” gave the owner the CO at 3:45PM, never mind that the HVAC system was not working and the elevators of the 17 story building only came on line at 9:00ish that morning. I used every card in my deck to drag that one over the line ...

About two months later I get a call from the CBO of the city and he points out that we don’t have a CO on the garage structure and that the superintendent never called for inspections on any of the construction work. :bang: They now want a letter from both me and my structural engineer attesting to the fact that the work was completed per the construction documents and that it met the code standards. I am STILL trying to straighten that mess out. Oh, and which sub was integral in even getting the garage completed? The steel fabricator! We built the walkway on site, they fabricated it and I photographed the various problems we encountered and emailed them to my structural engineer who would fax back details.

There has to be a better way. I don't know what it is, but I may know soon as I am contemplating getting back into the construction business as a general contractor. The professionalism is gone (for the most part) from architecture and there is little respect and less money afforded the design team. Actually the profession is about to kill itself as the most prominent story in the state professional publication was a story about “outsourcing” of all construction documents to India. Yea right, like that is going to instill confidence in the profession. :pissed:

Owners look to GCs to solve their problems and subs are integral to successful completion. I have never worked with a sub that does not respect me (although he may not agree always) and many have willingly expressed the desire to follow me to other projects. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, rather I am trying to recognize and applaud the fact that professionalism still pays well. Smitty might disagree with the pays well part.

The work that seems to interest me most are renovation and rehabilitation projects. They are often very complicated and require hands on management and quick decision making. Historic Restoration has been a speciality for the last 15 years and management of the actual construction seems to be the next logical step in my personal growth.

I might even be leaning on Smitty as two of the potential projects are in the OKC area!

OK, who wants the soapbox! ;)

 

[ironworker]

Tony, Thanks for the long winded reply to this thread, I can actually say that so much of what you said about Sub Contractors and the GC's is what I deal with almost everyday of the week.
I really don't know why I started this thread except I must have been having one of those friggin days where it takes an act of Jesus Christ to get paid for the work you provided some sh*t hole General Contractor months earlier.

Retention is one our companys biggest nightmare, Currently almost 200k out in retention and for what? the job has been done for months in most cases, whats the liability for the steel contractor? not finish his work? His work was completed months before the finishers came on board so there is no liability for him not to complete his work, thats the whole reason retention is withheld.
The only time I have ever recieved our retention early is when I gave a healthy discount to the GC and they had the cash flow to just pay it out.

I don't think anyone could actually know the game unless they are actually in it, It sucks from almost every aspect, beginning to end. the only satisfaction I get out of working 7 days a week for what some CEO of some big company probably makes tens of millions of dollars is looking at something I created with hard work and sh*t load of sh*t

I work with many different GC'c most of them only once, there are a few who actually have integrity and honesty but they are far and few between.

As you know my company is in California, if you ever have the chance to call out a fabricator or name a steel contractor who is willing to go the extra mile my company phone number is, 707-654-1961 it would be a pleasure to work with someone who actually give a **** about the small guys.
I filled out 4 mechanics liens in the past 2 months for non payment or late payment, i will get my money but not without litigation or arbitration.

Thanks again for your response, that goes for everyone sometimes you need to talk about the BS that others could only imagine go's on every single day in the construction world.

Rich Allen