shifting w/o clutch

[XR400RMan]

RICKYD: I am sorry if I made you mad or offended you in anyway, It was not intended. I was just speaking my opinion on the subject like everyone else, Sorry if I got away from your original question in anyway also, Now I have a question. Ok say I am riding in 4th gear and come up to a turn and pull the clutch in and downshift to 3rd gear and let out the clutch,You know the bike slows down and the rpms go up some, Does this mess anything up? Sometimes I will be in say 4th gear and pull clutch in and downshift to 2nd and then let out the clutch and it will slow the bike down that way I don't have to concentrate on using my brakes as much on the slippery dirt, Does this hurt anything at all?

ATC3434:And I always give the motor a quick blip when downshifting, instead of letting the next lower gear speed it up. I think that saves a lot of tranny wear. Just my $.02

Is that what ATC3434 is talking about causing Tranny wear? Sorry if I sound arrogant, Again I am sorry to RICKYD for any misunderstaning, Happy Riding,Matt

 

[rickyd]

XR400Man: No offense taken..
I myself havent had a problem of going from say 4th to 3rd (not sure on a 4-stroke though, i always have riden 2 strokes) if its a sweeper turn, i will keep it in 4th and fan the clutch..If its a sharp turn then i will go down to 3rd and fan the clutch.. In that circumstance, i havent messed up anything on my bike or previous bikes..

As to what ATC3434 is talking about, i have not tried it myself, but will..

Happy riding, be safe..
Rick

 

[jmics19067]

Sometimes I will be in say 4th gear and pull clutch in and downshift to 2nd and then let out the clutch and it will slow the bike down that way I don't have to concentrate on using my brakes as much on the slippery dirt, Does this hurt anything at all? [/QUOTE

only if you overspeed the engine

 

[Dirtbike3601]

When im shifting i up i sometimes shift up then revv it up while still holding the clutch so i can get more acceleration....

 

[so-slow]

you boys need to get alife. shift your bikes, and stop worrying about it. damn, you're like old women.

 

[atc3434`]

XR400Man, in my opinion, shifting back without the clutch can cause extra wear, just like shifting up without it. I don't think that extra wear hurts anything. I guess I blip the throttle when downshifting out of a habit I learned driving an old dump truck on a farm for a few years, you had to be able to double clutch, there was no syncromeshing in that tranny. So I just speed my bikes motor up to speed with the throttle, and then let the clutch out, so that there is virtually no felt downshift. But if you get the throttle setting wrong, and wind it up a little too much, well, its not pretty!
Dirtbike3601, sounds like your not getting the revs high enough before shifting, but then again, it doesn't hurt anything (Other than a little clutch wear) to do what your talking about... once again, just my $.02

 

[dave186]

I already explained how the tranny works, but when I ride, I use the clutch whenever I need more power, like out of corners and such. On straights I usually dont use it, but this is when Im racing. I have seen a transmission get worn out, dont know if it was from not using the clutch, but it was on my XR600, the cogs on 2nd gear just got rounded and it wouldnt stay in gear if you hit the gas. On a side note, I got to drive a 97 Ford Boom truck today, and it had an Eaton-Fuller 8 speed tranny with lo and lo-lo and all the gears but reverse were sychronized, whats the fun in that? :|

 

[atc3434`]

Dave186>>> thats right! Those fully syncroed trannys are no fun at all. My pops 93 Ram350 with a Cummings, full syncroed... but I double clutch it anyways, at least on the way down. Its really a lost art, you talk to most people that drive stick about double clutching and they are like "Huh?" Its sad... :|

 

[dave186]

What will really blow your mind is im only 18, and I know how to double clutch. My dad has a guy working for him with a truck that has a 24 speed and a 2 speed rear end, I havent seen it yet but it sure sounds fun. Ok, were getting off topic here;)

 

[nikki]

rickd - to answer your very first question... yes, you should let off of the gas a tiny bit to upshift without using the clutch. On my YZ 125, if you are on the gas and try to upshift without the clutch... it won't do it. You need to let off the throttle for a second and grab the next gear.

And about just using the clutch in general to shift, I rarely use my clutch to downshift. And I know most of my riding/racing buddies don't use it all the time to shift too. Now in upshifting, I might upshift without the clutch 1 out of every 5-10 times. In certain situations (like super-attack mode and body forward and over the bars) it is just more comfortable for me to pull up a gear without clutching. Also in loamy/deep ground you don't lose traction from pulling in the clutch... or something like that. All I know is that in certain situations it's natural to upshift without it. I don't do it too often, but I do it and have never had any tranny problems. Many others do it too.

 

[2001yz250]

Speed shifting with the clutch would put more stress on the entire drive chain than upshifting without the clutch.

With the undercutting of the dogs of the gears they are self energizing to help find and hold them into gear

Yeah, what he said!? :eek:

 

[Hucker]

Some people do, some people don't. My mechanic never does, I just find it easier not to use the clutch at all, unless I'm going down gears, or I"m not really getting on the gas. The gears don't have syncro's like a car, so there is no need for the clutch. (for upshifting anyhow). I took out my stock fibers and plates the other day and they are maybe 20% worn. After 12 years you'd think they'd be worn out a little more, I bet if I used the clutch all the time, I would have had to replace them like 5 years ago. My transmission is also in mint shape. Its all personal preference....

 

[2001yz250]

After 12 years you'd think they'd be worn out a little more

Wow!! Before I added an extra friction plate and heavy springs, I was lucky to get 2 rides out of a set of friction plates on my '89 CR250! Although the clutch feel is not the greatest in the world, that little mod has lasted for a couple of years with no sign of slippage.

 

[rickyd]

Thanks Nikki,
when i go riding this weekend i will experiment.. Ive never used the clutch to shift, but im gonna try it and see what i think..
Rick

 

[BuggyDaker]

no probs should arise shifting w/o clutch. and it is a wee bit quicker if done right. that's why the road race guys use shift interupters, kills the bikes ignition just long enough to grab another gear. i also race shifter karts and the only time we use the clutch is on the starts, and we are putting alot more power to the ground in the karts(not sure how it compares to a mx bike landing from a jump with the throttle on) and tranny problems in karting are very rare. shifting w/o the clutch on dirtbikes should be easy as long as you aren't changing the rpm of the rear wheel quickly, such as stutter bumps, loosing traction, riding in sand, etc.

i shift both ways. if it's nice and smooth, i shift w/0 clutch, if it's rougher and more technical i shift with the clutch.

now if i could only get my '02 cr250 to shift with or without the clutch. man that tranny is 'challenged'.

bug

 

[stangmata23l]

Everyone has their own riding style....just roost the **** out of it and be happy.

However, personally....using the clutch gives me (with my riding style) a big leg up....less shifting more power etc.

But hey even us clutch guys slam the gears now and then too....

 

[2001yz250]

I think we've gotten way off the original question in this thread. We went from 'should I blip the throttle WHEN shifting without the clutch', to 'should I shift without the clutch' to 'should I use the clutch'.

 

[SiCnTwIsTdYz]

well i use the clutch to shift i dont know anyone who doesnt but time to time i accidently shift up without using it on accident, that just happes not like its going to screw it up, but all the time i wouldnt do that:()~ and also i dont really have to feather my clutch when im going around burms i usually take a burm in high second and come out screaming in third, and on the straights i use 4th-5th alot i never heard of such a thing it was ok to shift without a clutch

 

[Howser03]

I drive big diesel concrete trucks over the summer without synchronized transmissions and I prefer to shift without the clutch. Once I had to drive a truck about 30 miles with no clutch at all :eek: At stop lights I had to put it into neutral, then jam it into first when I needed to go again. The trick is you have to match your rpms with your wheel speed. If I remember right when I upshifted I pulled out of the gear around 3000rpm, and put it in the next gear once it hit about 2000rpm. Downshifting is the opposite. Had to brake till rpms hit 2000, popped it out of gear, and rev it to 3000rpms and then bring it into gear. The truck will slow, start to brake to 2000rpm's, and repeat. Diesels are easier to shift without a clutch because they drop rpms so fast. All you have to do is find the particular rpm range on your bike where you can shift without clutch and the transmission doesn't care. When I'm driving my bike I split it up, if I'm in the right rpm range I just shift without the clutch. When I want to control how much power I'm giving I use the clutch. Sometimes even in my car I find myself shifting without the clutch... synchronized transmissions are so boring now :confused:

 

[BuggyDaker]

howser03,

couldn't of explained it better myself. when i owned a 'stick' car i used to drive around all the time w/o the clutch, and HAD to for a week- clutch cable broke. i didn't have to jam it into first though, my car would start in gear. not too good on starters and batteries though.

bug

 

[TWRT]

Some bikes (like nikki said) will not shift, w/o using the clutch, under extreme load (that is, not letting off the throttle). Some bikes will. I know first hand that shifting under extreme load will, I repeat, will wear out a transmission. I had an 86 YZ250 that would shift, w/o using the clutch, under full load. It was a blast. Hold the throttle wide open and just shift. The bike went very fast that way. BUT, after a few years of doing that (not all the time), I blew out 3rd gear. the bike would jump out of third. I still rode it like that for a while and ended up having to replace one of the two components of every gear. I NOW let off the gas a little when not using the clutch to shift. :)

 

[dell30rb]

All you four stroke guys...LOL!

On a two stroke there is literally no decompression braking. When you are off the throttle there is barely any stress on the transmission at all! Just make sure you are off the gas, and your tranny will be fine!