Who wants to race a 250Sx??

[marcusgunby]

It seems dobb has taken a wise disicision after his team mates bad accident-hes swapping to the 450sx for the remainder of the season.

Read the whole story at mxlarge.com

http://www.mxlarge.com/article.php?article_file=1055969347.php

Alot of riders has decided to not ride the 250sx-i think it will go down in history as a very bad boy.

 

[nephron]

Are you sure it's just not the 'open track'/'4 stroke' thing?
If SUZUKI had a big thumper, I bet Pichon would be on one.
There is just no advantage to riding a 250cc 2 stroke on those tracks. Here? yes. There? no.

 

[marcusgunby]

Nope in this case its the bike-Langston,MC,Dobb,Crockard, and obviously Berier who cannot ever race again:( and a few others have all decided against continuing to race the beast-thats some serious talent-there must be a reason.IMO its a very light over powerfull bad handling bike-many good reasons to stay away.Dobb has even been seen to make huge alterations at the GPs to try to get it to ride nice(very unusual), i think he will do better on the 450.

 

[dirt bike dave]

John Dowd has been racing the 250SX, and got a 2nd in the first moto at Southwick (a sand track).  Unfortunately, the bike refused to start for moto 2!  I believe he could race the 450 if he wanted to, but he seems to prefer the 250SX. 

 

[XRpredator]

DB Dave -- Dowdy got 3rd in the second moto at the 'Wick. I think he had starting probs at the prior two races, though.

on another note, could the KTM250SX, who everyone admits is wicked fast and powerful, be the 21st century version of the ol' TM400 Cyclone?

". . . Injury forces sale"

 

[whitesands26]

I've ridden a few 4 strokes and I'm not impressed....I can tell a big handling difference on the track...They don't seem to turn as well or anything....

I highly doubt you'll ever see a 4 stroke be as powerful as a two stroke...It takes an extra 200cc's to match the power output of a modern 250cc two stroke...Yes, the 4 stroke has a broader spread of power but that can also be attributed to the extra 200cc's of displacement.

Lets compare apples to apples.....250 4 stroke against a 250 2 stroke....Big power difference!

4 strokes are also more expensive to maintain and much more difficult to work on...A common misconception is that 4 stroke motocrossers require less maintenance...NOT TRUE!! Actually, a properly maintained 4 stroke motocrosser requires MORE maintenance!!

Cam chains, cam chain tensioners, valves, valve springs, and other little moving parts inside the 4 stroke engine means more things that can go wrong and adds to the difficulty factor of properly maintaining a motor...

Not only are 4 strokes more maintenance more maintenance intensive but they are also MORE EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN!!!

Juts look at the msrp cost of the 4 strokes compared to the two strokes...Then go parts shopping...

I can see all the repsonses coming in like " I rode my YZF 450 all year without any problems"...My answer ? There's a bunch of guys on two strokes that can make the same claim! However, I'll be willing to bet that anyone that goes a full year without proper maintenance either doesn't ride that often or their bike isn't running at its full potential.

 

[marcusgunby]

whitesands26 i adree with all your statements totally.DBD Yes Dowd has done well for a race or two but thats not really proving the bike.He may have done better on a 450sx or other models and he needs to put in a whole season of good finishes to prove to me that bike isnt possesed.

 

[dirt bike dave]

Pred is of course correct.  I finally got to watch the Southwick tape last night - Dowd looked pretty good in moto 2 to nab 2nd overall.

Dowd has been quoted several times in Cycle News praising the 250.  He says he really likes the bike, and he only misses the 520 (his ride last year) on the starts. 

Dowd finished the season in 7th last year, and this year he is 7th (tied with the Cobra) after 5 rounds despite the no-start at Mt. Morris and a 38th in moto 2 at Hangtown.  If not for the DNF's, Dowd would likely be 5th or 6th in the standings.  Not bad for a vet 'privateer'.  

Maybe Dowd has had an exorcism performed on his 250SX.   The bike doesn't seem to be slowing him down.  

 

[marcusgunby]

Lets hope it carries on working for him-i hate to see riders hurt.

 

[DPW]

Originally posted by whitesands26
I can see all the repsonses coming in like " I rode my YZF 450 all year without any problems"...My answer ? There's a bunch of guys on two strokes that can make the same claim! However, I'll be willing to bet that anyone that goes a full year without proper maintenance either doesn't ride that often or their bike isn't running at its full potential.

Yeah I'm sure the majority of people ride their bike to it's full potential....right

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

 

[nephron]

So, what's wrong with being light and overpowered?
Although mine's no lightweight, it runs away from me all the time, and wielding this son of a b#### requires constant awareness of what's between your legs. I damn near endo'd at about 60mph last night. It was one of those situations where you're staring at your front fender, pointed to the sky, legs instinctively pointed to the ground by the rear fender, can't use the rear brake.....I frequently get going way too fast in short distances and can't slow down quick enough to prevent highsiding a berm, or whatever. Does that mean it's the bike's fault?

Hell of Jeff Ward, all 5'6" and 130 pounds of him could supercross on a KX500, it tells a lot about how one of these things can be properly tamed and controlled. I just haven't gotten it down, yet. :silly:

Maybe the 250SX needs a rider that's not used to all the perfect taylor-made factory 250 powerbands. I'll bet RC would rock on one. :debil:

 

[marcusgunby]

Now thats a combination i would like to see-a firey little light bloke whos very fast, on a firey little orange bike thats very fast-each one tyring to bully the other into submission:)

 

[atc3434`]

Yeah, I'll second seeing RC on a 250SX... YAHOO!

 

[bclapham]

i remember Dobb saying last year he was losing so much time on the 250SX since it wouldnt shift. he looked good at glen helen on the 450 4 stroke though (But not as good as ferry or reed on the yzf's)

Marcus: when did donnington park get an MX track? i lived in Donnington for 2 years and didnt know that!

 

[marcusgunby]

Donnington has had a track for a couple of years-recently upgraded and redesigned.Its meant to be very good now(designed by Robb Herring)-not been to the redesgned track myself as yet.

Bruce where did this come into the thread?? i cant see any reference to Donnington on mxlarge?

 

[bclapham]

Having completed two tests on the 450 last week at the Donington Park MX circuit and a further outing in the last two days near the KTM factory in Austria, Dobb is more than satisfied with his new ride.

:thumb:

 

[whitesands26]

Originally posted by DPW


Yeah I'm sure the majority of people ride their bike to it's full potential....right

Everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

What kind of logic is that ? That's like saying if your bike runs like crap then it doesn't matter because you can't ride it to its full potential anyway...lol


Your statement is way off...

A riding experience is much more enjoyable if your bike is working properly no matter how fast you are...

 

[fuzzy]

Don't the 450sx and 250sx pretty much share the same chassis? (Just like all the other brands 250/450's?)

 

[marcusgunby]

Fairly sure they dont.

 

[Scoott]

The 250 sx has a new frame and motor. It is different frome any other ktm. I bought one to tinker with and ride on our GP tracks that we promote races at. I also ride a 520.
The 03 sx reminds me of the 96 360 that they rushed into production after winning the open class in 95.It is an unfinished product. They not only didn't have the motor sorted, they also had a new chassis to sort out.
I have spent a ton of time on the motor and suspension. My feeling is they overdid it on lightening the crank. I have added a 300 exc ignition and flywheel, which added 12 ounces with a larger diameter for more effect. I then added an additional 14 ounce add-on weight. With 26 ounces added, it still feels like it has less flywheel then a 250 Yamaha that i got to compare to.
After resetting deck height, compression,porting,a pipe, and major rejetting, I am very happy with the motor. It pulls hard down low, like a 300, but still outpulls the Yamaha on top. The big hit is now replaced with a strong surge which is very controllable.
The suspension has gone through numerous revalves/resprings to get to a more balanced feel. The KTM still feels much lighter on the front than the Yamaha. I have gone from 14mm offsets to 20mm offsets to get the front end to bite. The turning issue has been complicated by the new 03 shock with top-out spring inside. After reading and trying the different recommended set-ups, I took the Ohlin shock off my 520 and bolted it right on. Sag was close, adjusted to 100mm sag, and the bike started turning!
Since then I have revalved and resprung the stock shock, running a 7.7 to 11kg spring with 113 laden sag, 35mm unladen. It doesn't turn as well as the Ohlins, but the action is a little better.
I would guess that next year the sx will come out with a heavier crank and different offsets and suspension settings.
I disliked the bike when I first got it, but after much tinkering, I'm riding it more then my 520.

 

[bclapham]

be carefull scoott, you might just convince Marcus to buy another KTM:)

 

[marcusgunby]

LOL so just a load of tinkering, a total engine rebuild and a new shock and offset clamps and your sorted;)i know most bikes need fettling but it really does sound like the 250sx is unfinished.

 

[Scoott]

Agreed. Had I known what I was getting into, I probably would have built a 540 or 580 RFS. But, then again, I am EXTREMELY picky about how I want a bike to work..... And everytime I ride a bike that does something better than mine, it's back to the drawing board.

 

[steve125]

Marcus would be all smiles if he just hadn't ridden the CR. He knew in less than a lap that the kawie needed help with it's handling. :ugg:

 

[Earthpilot]

Dowd is riding the 250SX because he had serious "reliability" issues with his 450SX when he started riding and training again in late Feb. He blew up a couple of motors and was spooked because he didn't want to lunch another motor on a big uphill double or worse. He rode the last two seasons on basically a stock 520SX engine (except one race where he tried a "euro style 540 motor) and had zero reliability issues and little engine maintainence.
That 520 gave away almost 20 lbs to all the other factory 250 strokes but Dowd pulled holeshots and had some good rides. (Southwick 01')
The 250SX DNF'd two motos so far this year costing him valuable points. Moto two at Hangtown was mechanical "error". They had a bad CDI unit after prepping the bike for moto two, changed it while the parade lap was on, the the bike sputtered on the first lap...the unit wasn't grounded properly. Moto two at High point was a failed ignition stator on the parade lap.
He is happy with the 250SX, and that bike is nothing that a privateer and
3 grand couldn't duplicate. Bottom line is that a fast rider will be fast on
just about anything, it all depends what he feels most comfortable on,
and gets paid to ride!