04 ktm valving

[dbrace]

Pulled down an 04 ktm 450 exc shock yesterday. They are a lot different. Still 44mm o.d face pistons on comp. but both stacks now use .15 crossovers. The needle is way shorter and almost looks like last years needle just chopped of half way down.It has close to no taper to it. Almost makes me think that there will be no progression once the needle comes into play it will just hit a wall of valving. Much testing and playing to be done. I can post the fork and shock valving if anyone is keen for a look.

 

[KTM-Lew]

Strange...it was my understanding that the 04 needle was to be longer than the older one's and be more progressive? More taper? :think:

 

[marcusgunby]

Im keen to see what they are upto on valving-i adgree with KTM lew-sounds like all the talk of longer needles is just talk?? maybe on the sx only?

 

[prcucuma]

It would be great if you can post the valving for the fork and shock. I rode the 2004 of a friend and the forks were really plush compared to my 2003 EXC. I would like to see which changes in valving they did make, and if they changed the midvalve.

 

[dbrace]

2004 ktm 450 exc

SHOCK FORK

REB COMP
36x.25 6 24X.1
21x.9 2 22X.1
28x.3 20X.1
18X.1
COMP 16X.1
44X.2 14X.1
42X.2 9.5X.3
34X.15
40X.2
38X.2 REB
36X.2 4 .1X Delta shims
34X.25 .1x16
32X.25 .1x20
30X.25 .1x18
28X.25 .1x16
21X.3 .1x14
2.3x9.5
REB
2 36X.25
28X.15 Midvalve
34X.2 5 .1x24
32X.2 .1x22
28X.2
20X.3 1.8mm lift (measured with spring removed)

COMP
5 44X.2
36X.15
44X.2
42X.2
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28X.25
21X.3

 

[dbrace]

2004 ktm 450 exc

SHOCK

REB
36x.25
21x.9
28x.3

COMP
44X.2
42X.2
34X.15
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28x.25
21x.3
REB
2 36X.25
28X.15
34X.2
32X.2
28X.2
20X.3

COMP
5 44X.2
36X.15
44X.2
42X.2
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28X.25
21X.3

FORK

COMP
6 24X.1
2 22X.1
20X.1
18X.1
16X.1
14X.1
9.5X.3

REB
4 DELTA X.1
.

MIDVALVE
5 24X.1
22X.1

1.8MM FLOAT MEASURED WITH SPRING REMOVED

 

[dbrace]

2004 ktm 450 exc

SHOCK

REB
36x.25
21x.9
28x.3

COMP
44X.2
42X.2
34X.15
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28x.25
21x.3
REB
2 36X.25
28X.15
34X.2
32X.2
28X.2
20X.3

COMP
5 44X.2
36X.15
44X.2
42X.2
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28X.25
21X.3

FORK

COMP
6 24X.1
2 22X.1
20X.1
18X.1
16X.1
14X.1
9.5X.3

REB
4 DELTA X.1
16X.1
20X.1
18X.1
16X.1
14X.1
2 9.5X.3

MIDVALVE
5 24X.1
22X.1

1.8MM FLOAT MEASURED WITH SPRING REMOVED

 

[georgieboy]

Do i understand that there is no rebound shim stack at the midvalve.
(i have only seen mine forks from the inside, marzocchies)

 

[prcucuma]

Thanks for your input dbrace! The fork setting looks quite similar to 2003, but I don't know right now which size the clamping shim was, if it was a 10mm or 9mm. Do you know the mid valve of 2003? As the new setting is much plusher...

 

[prcucuma]

@ georgieboy:
The rebound shim stack of the fork is the column directly above the mid valve stack.

 

[georgieboy]

Prucucuma, so this rebound stack is located at the midvalve piston.
I read this like it is at the basevalve?
I mean mine fork come with a rebound stack at the base and one at the midvalve.

 

[prcucuma]

The WP forks have the rebound stack at the midvalve positioned (on the other side of the piston...). At the base valve is only a check plate for letting the oil flow nearly unrestricted back into the cartridge to prevent cavity (read air bubbles). From top down you have:

mid valve (for comp)
piston
rebound shim stack

check plate
piston
comp shim stack (base valve)

I hope this helps...

 

[georgieboy]

it certainly does, thx.

 

[georgieboy]

Oke i noticed that there is no high-speed comp stack at the midvalve. So is there any improvement possible? And the same for the rebound stack in the shock, no high-speed shim stack there either. That is common with WP's?

 

[blohman]

The midvalve controls hi speed damping

 

[marcusgunby]

COMP
5 44X.2
36X.15
44X.2
42X.2
40X.2
38X.2
36X.2
34X.25
32X.25
30X.25
28X.25
21X.3


a unusual stack IMO , a 0.15mm cross over is small compared to most shocks and the jump from 28mm shims to a 21mm clamp seems alot.Not really sure what wp are upto on this stack , does the bike ride well for its intended terrain?

 

[KTM-Lew]

Marcus

Could it be that because the oil has to flow thru 2 piston/shim stacks that it doesn't NEED to have much high-speed damping? Nearing orfice restriction on high-speed hits? :eek:

 

[marcusgunby]

Not sure as i dont really see any woods setups so i have little to compare it to.However i would think a woods setup would use a bigger cross over??

 

[marcusgunby]

Heres a 2000 KTM 250 exc for comparison

Main
(4).20 x 44
.15 x 32
(2).25 x 38
.10 x 28
(2).25 x 32
.30 x 22

 

seems ktm have been doing weird stuff for a few years?? i cant comapre that stack to the previous one.

 

[dbrace]

I've done a lot of pds shocks over the last few years and the 04's are the first ones i've ever seen with crossovers. I haven't seen inside an 04 sx as yet to see if it is running crossovers.

 

[marcusgunby]

Hmm maybe that stack i listed for the 250 isnt std??

 

[dbrace]

On the 04 exc it has very light valving on the first piston but the spring starts out at a stiffer rate in an effort to hold the bike up in the early part of the stroke.
The second piston runs firmer but not overly stiff valving (compared to 03). Then i think the new needle will come into play hard and fast as the shock moves thru the stroke to greatly increase comp. damping.

 

[Scott in KC]

This is very interesting. Regarding the FORKS....I can't see how the valving is much different, if at all, from the '03 valving. Yet, guys are saying how much better the forks are on the '04? :) Perhaps "new bike syndrome"? Having SIX 24x.10 shims against that piston is nuts for typical off road use...it makes the forks very harsh. Why would they persist with this base valve setup, for the EXC models?? Or do they just ship the same fork regardless of model...seems closer to SX valving than trail valving.

On the other hand, I am curious as to the effect of the shock changes compared to the '03 setup.

 

[Kartwheel]

The PDS shock valving has had crossover shims in the stacks since its inception in 98. The fork basevalve is only half the story, what about differences at the midvalve. Most importantly the midvalve float.

 

[prcucuma]

In 2003 the forks had a 10mm clamping shim, new in 2004 is the 9,5mm clamping shim. the rest of the base valve is about the same. But right now I don't know the difference of the mid valves of 2003 and 2004. Does anybody know?