'05 CR250R ...... a motor at last

[oldfrt613]

I reluctantly gave up my TMR modified '01 CR250. This engine seemed to be perfect. I rode new CR's every year since, but came away with the same opinion - great chasis, no engine. I was to the point of stuffing an '01 engine in the new chasis. Once I rode the '05 it was apparent that Honda was finally addressing the engine issue. I've had the bike ported and head modified, added Mototassinari reed, and Pro-Circuit pipe and silencer. But it still didn't feel right. I suspected the needle was too rich in the lower portion. After many hours of searching for needles ( my Honda dealer couldn't even get me the optional needle in my manual ) I ordered a JD jetting kit. What can I say WOW. One look at the new needle and it was clear - the Honda was waaay rich off the bottom stock. The bike runs clean and hard. Honda is back !!!!

 

[pace]

Very cool. While the recent CR's are a little sleepy from the factory, porting and carburation mods can really turn them into firebreathers. It's just bizarre that Honda could keep tweaking, yet not get it right themselves. Sounds like the 2005 is a lot closer to the mark though in terms of power delivery, and the dyno tests I've seen show that only the KTM makes more peak horses.

I still think Honda have all but abandoned the two strokes though.

 

[oldfrt613]

I doubt they are abandoning it. The '05 represents a substantial investment in tooling because of the crank case changes. From what I've seen and experienced, the 4-stroke guys are not to going to be able to afford living with them. I think in the future you will see a movement back to the 2-stroke, just because of the financial burden they place on owners - particularly those who race. I've tried the 450's and I realy notice the extra weight. I don't think a modified 250's give anything up to them, especially at the amature level. They ( 450's ) may be the first to the first turn, but they always seem to fall off pace quicker. The 125's however will need some kind of class change or will be obsoleted I think ---but this supposed to be a bike opinion, not a philisophical debate over 2-strokes and 4-strokes.

 

[Airlooped]

Some magazine write-ups have mentioned the 05 motor produces a lot of unusual noise and vibration. Have any of you experienced this?

 

[oldfrt613]

I haven't noticed any unusual vibration. I have hear a "clank" noise once in a while, almost like a cable slapping. I traced it down to the electronic power valve. If the cables loose, it doesn't clank - when its adjusted properly the noise returns. I suspect its just the power valve closing against its stop. I have only had to adjust the power valve cable twice since it was new. I haven't had to adjust it for months now so I think it was just a break in thing.

 

[pace]

I think in the future you will see a movement back to the 2-stroke, just because of the financial burden they place on owners - particularly those who race.

Unfortunately, the EPA have stacked things so that post-2005 two-strokes will place a legal burden on those who ride them for recreation in this country.

Honda have not given us a significant redesign since the '02 model, so for 2006 we see the 5th year of this generation of two-stroke CR. 2006 will also be the third year (?) that the four strokes have had the new chassis. While I'm happy with my 3rd gen frame, it suggests to me that they are not willing to make the significant investment necessary to stay ahead of the competition.

 

[ellandoh]

what has the competition done so far except play catch up??
honda is still the only ones who have an electronically controlled rc valve. that coupled with an tps= not far to go for a sweet efi :yikes: which is what will happen when honda feels the comp has caught up. with them all being on their FIRST gen alum frame :think:

 

[holeshot01]

I ride an 03 with eric gorr "mo better" porting, have the JD jet kit, rad valve and gnarly pipe, 50 t rear sprocket.I would love to ride an 05, cause this motor is as close to perfect as I can get, and I came off an 01 cr. I'm contemplating a new 03 again, or a new 05...............hmmmm. Eric says the 05 motor has huge ports, did not recommend it for hare scrambles, anyone have any opinions?

 

[bedell99]

ellandoh, I don't want to burst your bubble, but the YZ250 engine is much better than a case reed CR250 motor. When I owned a CR250 i didn't want to believe it also. I think the reason for this is because of the RC valve and the Honda not having sub exhaust ports.

Erik

 

[ellandoh]

how about explaining why the yz motor is better, tell me what exactly they have done recently that honda has not, which makes everyone feel like honda has given up?? .......................oh yeah they came out with their 1st gen alum frame :think:

imo a sudden hit in the powerband , which decievingly makes a bike feel powerful is not better, i much rather have a gradual increase in power, which btw has a better spread and higher peak than the yz in all dynos ive seen, the cr just feels predictable to me . ive jetted mine properly and put on reeds and exhaust and will roll on the throttle with anyone at any starting speed with similar mods and usually win

i have ridden all other 250's the yz was my next choice as far as motors go but most others feel like glorified 125s to me.............none have caught up yet , thats a fact , theyre barely over being skeptical of the aluminum frame and only have it now because theyre following suit as usual

 

[n_w t_ b_kes]

People give Honda all the credit for aluminum frame...why don't the people who like 4-stroke mxers give Yamaha the credit? They invented them...

 

[agrass582]

I have to say that I love my 01 CR250. The only thing that I dislike about owning that year is the fact that I can't buy a nice graphics kit for it. Haven't found anything that I like. No AMSoil, no Subway, no HotWheels. They are all being made for the 02-05's But the great 01' motor takes up for that. Anyways, I will have to agree about the 4 strokes being more $$$ to maintain if racing vs. 2 strokes. Could hit some people hard in the pockets. And to the one who commented on Yamaha inventing the 4 stroke MXer's. Someone invents it, but who perfects it is the key.

 

[PAULRY]

I have owned and ridden CR 250's since 1999. In 2005 I bought a YZ250. I did not want to believe that anything was better, but the YZ250 is a better bike. It pulls from idle to the upper rpm, where the Honda has to be clutched or down shifted to get going. Trust me dump the CR. Excellent made bikes, with the best quality, but when coming to ride the thing it does not compare to the YZ.

 

[Philip]

I would have to agree that the YZ off the floor is better. The bike runs cleaner and has a crisp throttle response. BUT with some mods on the CR it can be a great bike. I think(which is opinion) that the CR is a better bike with mods for me. I like the handling and agree the smooth power band is less exhausting for a fat boy like me.

 

[oldfrt613]

I also have an '05 YZ250 in my basement. It is very responsive, it is probably a little stronger right off the bottom than the CR, but the CR gets the nod mid range and up. I ride my CR in the woods about half the time ( I ride 3-4 times a week ). The CR works great in the woods for me once the jetting was cleaned up.

 

[bedell99]

I don't want to make this thread a my bike is better than your bike because there was alot of things I really liked about my CR. The front suspension was better out of the box, the front end had more plant and the ergonmics where real nice, but you cannot compare the motors. I know I have not ridden the 05 and my observations are a bit biased towards the 02-04 CR's but the YZ motor is better bone stock than my modded 02 Eric Gorr motor. Both good bikes but when it comes to engines the YZ is amazing.

Erik

 

[oldfrt613]

I don't doubt it. I never intended to have a "my bike is better than yours" thread or "the EPA is going to outlaw your 2-strokes" thread. It was primarily to let people know that Honda had made a big improvement in the engine, and there is some real potential in the new motor for '05. I had an '04 CR and an '04 YZ in the basement also. I have lots of people who ride on my place. I get a chance to work on a lot of bikes. Lets face it, most people are brand loyal until the manufacture does something silly. For instance, I switched from 15 yrs of racing Suzuki's when they put conventional forks on in 'the mid 90's. Honda lost a lot of riders in '02-'04 because of the engine. No one will argue about what they have done with the chasis - its been great ( well except mabe '97 - but that was realy a suspension issue - but I digress ).

 

[bikepilot]

After not riding for a while (college got in the way) I bought a like new 01 CR250 (owner was a frind who bought it new and didn't ride it much). I'm amazed how good the motor and chassie is stock (well mostly stock). Is their a noticable chassie difference going from the 01 to the 02-05 series? If so what? Would it make a difference for a B class rider like myself?

 

[pace]

..but the YZ motor is better bone stock than my modded 02 Eric Gorr motor.

No offense, Erik, but something 'wasn't right' with your '02 IMHO. It felt no quicker than my '03 felt stock - I know you said it subsequently improved with the addition of reeds, but that was a big deficit to make up. My modded '03 is significantly stronger than my buddy's 2005 KX btw.

Just an observation FWIW. I'm sure that the YZ is a great bike, and by all accounts it seems it's much more responsive off the bottom than the CR. I'd love to snag a ride next time we hook up! I really enjoyed the YZs I've owned. :cool:

 

[oldfrt613]

I can't speek for the '02 and '03 models but the '04 and '05 are noticably better. So much so I was going to stuff an '01 engine in the '04. They are slimmer and lighter. I ran offset clamps on the '01 to sharpen turning. The difference between the '04 and the '05 is the '05 has 2mm of offset built into the forks. The '04 suspension felt better stock than the '05 to me, but they're pretty close. The motor on the '05 is way better than '04. As far as stock to stock comparison with your '01: You'll love the chasis on either the '04 or '05, depending on your skill level you may not notice the 2mm offset difference. With the '04 motor you'll be really disapointed in the bottom end performance, with the '05 you'lle ony be slightly dissapointed compared to the '01. Another change in '05 was beefing up the lower end of the engine. I was rebuilding the lower end in my '01 about every season and a half, that was my biggest reason for giving up my '01 more so than any performance issues.

 

[pace]

The '02 and '03 will offer the same chassis improvement, although as you noted there were suspension and steering geometry revisions which likely improve the handling of the later models.

I think you're right on the mark with the motor observations. I've ridden the '02, '03, and '04 and I think that Honda took a step backward with the delivery of the '04 which was completely anaemic off the bottom. I would love to swing a leg over an '05 as most everything I've read/seen is positive.

Some of the reviews complained that the 2005 hit 'too hard' and was a handful for some riders. What are your observations on that?

 

[James]

No offense, Erik, but something 'wasn't right' with your '02 IMHO. It felt no quicker than my '03 felt stock - I know you said it subsequently improved with the addition of reeds, but that was a big deficit to make up. My modded '03 is significantly stronger than my buddy's 2005 KX btw.

I was thinking something was up with that too because I have ridden a stock 04 YZ250 which supposedly has the same motor as the 05 and 03, and while it had more bottom and a good broad spread of power, I wasn't overly impressed or blown away by it in comparison to my stock 02 CR. BUT I DID LIKE IT. I think the CR hits harder in the middle and feels stronger up top. I won't argue with the lack of low-end on the CR.

 

[oldfrt613]

The "hit" is more of a pissy stock jetting issue than anything. Don't get me wrong though, when it gets to the midrange it gets with the program. As far as being a handful I assume most riders buying 250 MX'ers are fairly experienced. More people around here flip the YZ because it hits right off the bottom.

 

[bedell99]

I can't wait Pace till we meet up again to compare motors. The YZ motor just pulls nice, its hard to explain. Your right though my motor was down on power compared to yours, which was odd. I have a feeling the 05 CR is a much better offering. A little off topic: How does the new powervalve on the O5 "pull out" compared to the old one.?? I remember reading it has a completely removable powervalve on the 05 that you can remove in one complete stop.. Just seemed like a nice way wot clean the powervalve if you could.

Erik

 

[bclapham]

i love these "Well, ive had my CR ported, bought a new reed valve, new pipe, new silencer, new carb and spend 6 months fiddling with the jetting, port timing and fuel and its the best bike out there" threads!