2-stroke oils (again, I'm sure!)

[nick414]

Ok, I've searched in vain for a thread I saw some time ago oil, but I can't find the one I am looking for, sooo...

I used Amsoil 100:1 for several seasons in the dunes and desert (no tracks) in my KDX200, and my roommates KX500. Never a seize, and still had cross-hatching on the cylinder upon teardown in the 500, never tore down my KDX. Never any spooge.

Now I have a KX250. I rebuilt it when I got it, and on the advice of a friend started running Yamalube 2R at 32:1 after he had a conniption when I mentioned the ratio, etc. (He is an ex-factory race mechanic, but VERY old school.) Now I pay $8 a quart and use 3x as much oil, and have spooge to boot! Neither of which I like. I'm told if I were faster I'd have no spooge, but... :) :)

My questions are: What oil is spooge-free, or is it more the amount than the type/brand? What do you use, why, and what ratio? Race fuel, pump fuel, or a mix?

Sorry Rich, but if you know offhand where the thread I mentioned is located, would you kindly send me the link? I shall happily eat crow...!

And lastly, thanks for the great book Mr. Gorr. Excellent!

 

[bclapham]

its all about them jets nick!:) Mobil MX2T from autozone at 25-32:1 is good place to start.

when we gonna ride next?

Bruce

 

[scairns]

I have been experimenting with different oils for quite a while.

My bike is an IT200 jetted for a 50:1 mixture. Tight ruff trails and fire roads.
I've tried several oils.
These 2 are by far the best for my conditions.

Motul 800 excellent no splooge, nice plug reading (hard to get locally)
IPZone SP2 also excellent oil with same results as Motul. (local shop has it)

They both smell good as well. Crazy French people.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

There are no "Spooge Free" oils. Some are cleaner than others like Mobil MX2T, but spooge is generally a by-product of incomplete combustion. Oils designed for high heat and high loads (Motul 800, Maxima 927 etc) will be tougher to burn off, but in the right application they can run clean too. Excessively rich jetting and fuel that won't vaporize and burn (i.e most pump fuel and many EFI auto specific race fuels) are usually the major contributors. I've run Yamalube as low as 18:1 without spooge. So I'll go out on a limb and say anyone who tries to convince you that switching from Yamalube to their favorite will magically eliminate spooge is just showing their ignorance and trying to bring you to the party.

Put some decent fuel in the bike and jet it correctly and your spooge will be gone.

 

[bclapham]

Originally posted by Rich Rohrich
Put some decent fuel in the bike and jet it correctly and your spooge will be gone.

:worship: :thumb: :yeehaw:

 

[Joepro9]

In most cases jetting is the cause of spooge, but i did switch from suzuki's 2 stroke oil to klotz with the same jetting and 100% eliminated all spooge.

 

[MikeS]

Rich,
Best advice on oil that I have heard in a long time....:)

You will always hear when I switched to XXXXX there was no more spooge.. It is a case by case basis. How hard and long you twist the throttle is another big factor. Jetting and Fuel are number 1.

 

[scairns]

I agree that jetting is the most important factor but in my experience
different oils produce different results.

Whether you are 50:1 or 24:1 doesn't really matter as long as the jetting matches your choise. Keep in mind you will use 2 x the oil at 24:1

I am sure that gas is a big facture and in my case the 100% synthetic oils work best with the fuel I use. Cheveron 94

Cheers !!!

 

[Senior KX Rider]

Excessively rich jetting and fuel that won't vaporize and burn (i.e most pump fuel

If you are trying to eliminate spooge and you are running pump swill in your tank....Good luck. It is very hard to find that sweet spot with pump fuel.. not to mention that if you do find it, the next can of gas you pump could be different. :confused: There is no consistency running pump gas, you are looking for a sweet spot that is ever-changing

 

[holeshot]

I run MX2T, and feel that it's a relatively clean burning oil (full synthetic) , but I played with the jetting and upgraded my fuel (part C12) as the first steps toward two stroke nirvana. :confused:

If you were running Amsoil at 100:1 and had great results, then why change? I must be old school as well, because that ratio seems kind of thin, unless the oil is very thick to begin with.

Unfortunately, I could never use anything beginning with the letters "Am", if it has any connection with Amway. That's one little party I don't want to attend. :o

 

[nick414]

Thanks folks, I only switched 'cause I can't find it any more. And it's not Amway btw!!! Sorry I forgot to mention I run 25% F&L too.

I guess I'll play the jet game. Should I select a brand and mixture first, I suppose? ...N

 

[bclapham]

Nick, the F&L wont help much, especially at 25%.... its very heavy and smells really strong of toluene. i went to Madracing in Vista today, i think he has C12 for around $5 a gal in cans

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Nick which F&L fuel are you using?

 

[holeshot]

Originally posted by nick414
And it's not Amway btw!!!

OK, my bad. :)

 

[nick414]

Bruce: Thanks for that, I know you're quite the fuel research guru. I don't quite understand what you mean but I'm thinking you prefer VP? btw, Wanna do Otay tomorrow? It rained nicely again last night!

Rich: The 108 octane stuff, purchased at B&R Buggy in O'side. I know it's fresh. I don't know the designation.

Holeshot: The company does work the same way though, I think! lol :) fyi, HPS used to make a 128:1 synthetic of course. Wish I could still find that!

I only went to F&L from VP since they sponsor Tommy (my friend's supercross-ing, super-fast nephew we all live vicariously through) now. I run the 25% (again on Bob's recommendation) basically to add lead for lubing purposes, or so I thought!

I would like to run a thinner mixture on the theory that burning fuel gives more power than burning oil. Therefore, 100:1 should contain more energy than 32:1... yes Bruce?

What to do? I feel like I'm still at square one here. Run pure pump? Pure race? What oil? Ratio? I was thinking there'd be one or two overwhelming trends, but I suppose not!

Guess I'll have to learn some chemistry. No wait a minute, we have Bruce here! :)

Oh rats, server just crashed...

 

[Rich Rohrich]

F&L doesn't list a 108 octane fuel on their website. Any idea on the specs?

FWIW, lead won't provide any additional lubrication in a two-stroke. ;)

 

[bclapham]

Nick:

i think its the F&L 110 that i used (when i called them). the C-12 is better since amongst it is more volatile (branched alkys vs aromatics), ie much improved throttle response over the F&L.

as for the 32:1 vs 100:1 you have to look at the whole picture, 32:1 gives better ring seal, which leads to more comp. and as Rich has measured, more power going all the way to 16:1! so more oil=more power+better enigine life, not a bad deal, you just have to pay back in a couple of jets!:)

i run 100% race, in the worst case i would run 50:50, some tuners have said they even like that better for more boost, but thats a different show Jerry!;)

if you can get C12 for $5 a gal run it 50:50 with MX2T @25-40:1 i think this is a happy place to be, and you wont be that far out of pocket with quite some peace of mind.

no riding this week, inlaws in town!

btw. i am not the resident fuel Guru, that is Mr. Rohrich's mantle, i am the little scraggly dog that sits around and feeds from the scraps of meat he throws aside!

cheers

Bruce

 

[bclapham]

Originally posted by nick414
I would like to run a thinner mixture on the theory that burning fuel gives more power than burning oil. Therefore, 100:1 should contain more energy than 32:1... ?

i just though about this some more, i think if you could get your bike to run on neat premix, you would get more power! :confused: (try jetting that one Rich! :moon: :))

why? the way i reason it (could be wrong), premix oil has larger molecules (read: high molecular weight) and thus, each molecule has more chemical bonds holding the individual atoms together than gasoline. Thus, when it combusts, more bonds are broken and more energy is given out.

 

[nick414]

Ahhh, sorry about that Mr. Rohrich. I guess the lead just adds a bit of octane? Thanks for setting me straight guys. I was most certainly under a mis-apprehension!!! (M. Malaprop) Sorry you can't make it tomorrow Bruce.

I guess I shall go back to VP now I have a reason to. I think I will try the MX2T @ 32:1. Should I use 50% VP, or 100%, and am I in a safe zone with my current jetting (given the fuel mix I have been running)?

 

[Studboy]

"am I in a safe zone"
The C12 will richen your jetting over the pump because it has a lower specific gravity, so yes, you will be safe but rich.

If you want the ultimate in consistancy and throttle response, go with 100& C12. If you just need a little bit more octane and I LITTLE bit more response and are on a budget, run 50%. I have also had good luck with the MX2T, out of all the oils I've tryed, that is my favorite. And I've tryed a lot!!!
My only complaint is the color, I wish it were red or blue or something so that I could easily see it in the gas.

 

[viking20]

We live in Denmark,Europe and I think our pump fuel is pretty consistant.Thats a good thing because race fuel will cost about 4 times more than you us guys have to pay.Or,we pay the same for pump fuel as you guys pay for race fuel.On top of that the oil is at least double the price here.On the pre-mix ratio discussion let me join in with my observations:My 14 year old son is an ok rider,but not a future star of any kind.He rides a 01-cr 125,and jetting is always conservative,not on the limit,but reasonably close.Im not an expert,but have learned a LOT from people like Rich and Marcus Gunby,on these forums.The bike runs 33-1 Motul 800,and there is no spooge.I think its easyer to avoid this when the bike is only used on the mx track,where the engine is in the powerband most of the time....