80% rider 20% bike

Honda318 · Oct 20, 2001

this may be true from a pro but not for me.i ride a 97cr250 and my friend let me ride his 02yz250 and i felt so much better,and i was going way way faster on the yz than my bike and also felt way more safer and incontrol,im going to get a 02yz250,i just felt so much faster and safer on with withen 1 lap!

bud · Oct 20, 2001

More like 95% rider, 5% bike. When comparing bikes, I've always thought it would only apply to current model bikes that are well maintained, set up no worse than stock, and racing in the same class.

cujet · Oct 20, 2001

While it is true that modern bikes are very close in performance, The bike makes a huge difference in a riders lap times. The same is true in auto racing where different cars are raced in the same class. Think about this, the difference in lap times between a YZ250 and a XR250. Not a fair comparison??? Sure it is, the bike makes a huge difference! While out play riding, bikes are not grouped together by size or class, the faster bike often wins. here in Florida, XR250's get left in the dust. So do many 125's. The only time the bikes do not make a huge difference in lap times is when ALL the bikes are the same.

Chris

mx547 · Oct 20, 2001

i always thought of the bike/rider ratio as being one rider making comparisons between different bikes, not different riders on different bikes. i think the 5% improvement is quite likely between similar bikes with one rider. i seriously doubt that 318 has improved lap times by 20% but i don't doubt a bit that he is faster on the yz. then again, i would expect his lap times to improve on any of the new bikes.

KawieKX125 · Oct 20, 2001

I too believe that the bike counts alot more than 5%. I just bought a built 2001 KX125 and it is a huge advantage and after getting it, I am told I ride alot faster and smoother. I was able to win and go fast on my 99, but the 2001 makes it SO much easier.

pyromaniac · Oct 21, 2001

I see it like this. A pro will take you and your new bike with almost any old bike out there. So how much do you think the bike is? Not much. Everyone may go faster on a newer bike put that only means you dont use your current bike to its fully. If you think you do use it to its full potential, then a pro should have about the same lap times on that bike.

Once again: I hate when people think they need a new bike and even more when they think they need more power out of it. LEARN TO RIDE INSTEAD! A pro will easy take you with a much older bike so if he doesnt need a new bike to go faster than you then you dont either!

Badgas · Oct 22, 2001

pyromaniac

I see it like this. A pro will take you and your new bike with almost any old bike out there. So how much do you think the bike is? Not much. Everyone may go faster on a newer bike put that only means you dont use your current bike to its fully. If you think you do use it to its full potential, then a pro should have about the same lap times on that bike.

There it is again. The old "a pro can beat you on any bike, so it has to be all rider and no bike" dribble.

From another post, one person said "Put you on a Works 250 and McGrath on a stock 250 and who is going to win."

I work in an office for a living. What do Pro's do for a living? OF COURSE THEY CAN BET MOST PEOPLE ON A PIECE OF S#%T BIKE!!!!

The argument 95% rider/5% bike is crap unless your McGrath or a Pro.

Now that I think about it, it's still a ridiculous argument even if you are a pro. Is McGrath going to be faster on a 02' Works 250 or a 95' stock 250? Remember it's 95% rider.

The reason why this argument fails, is because people always compare someone to the Pros.

The argument can only stand if your premise is with one person. Are YOU, AND ONLY YOU, going to be faster on a 02' what ever the bike is, or a 95'? You might be faster on the 95'. So what does that tell you? The bike suited you better so you were faster.

Bottom line. IF your going to make this argument does start pulling the "this guy can bet you an a pw50" crap out.

If you argue it from a one person or the first person point of view, then and only then, is your argument close to being valid.

rockchucker · Oct 22, 2001

I see everyone's point here and to a degree both opinions are correct. However the rider with the highest "degree" of adaptability will be faster on whatever bike they choose, regardless. On the flipside things like ergonomics, suspension, and motor can give the average rider added confidence which equates to speed. The equation 80% rider 20% bike is fairly accurate.

Honda318 · Oct 22, 2001

i rode the 02yz250 again yesterday at the same track,my fastest lap time on my honda was 1:44,and my fastest on the yz was 1:17

rockchucker · Oct 22, 2001

You shaved 27sec's off your laptime which is pretty good. That is also %18 faster than your previous time. Now, we did say the ratio was %80 rider, %20 bike didn't we? You improved by almost %20. :)

Badgas · Oct 22, 2001

Now, we did say the ratio was %80 rider, %20 bike didn't we? You improved by almost %20.

Under your premise of 80% - 20%. He should have only been able to cut his lap times by .054 sec.;)

Aust 520exc · Oct 22, 2001

I don't think that this is a mathematics forum, but guys 20% of Honda318 lap time on his honda is 20.8 seconds. His improvement from 1min 44 sec to 1min 17 sec on the Yammy is a 25.96% improvement on the honda:D

Honda318 · Oct 22, 2001

i been riden my 97cr250 for 5 months and the yz for 1 hour,and the bike wasnt even setup for me,i cant wait to get my own and set it up for me.

mx547 · Oct 22, 2001

i find a 27 second per lap improvement a little hard to believe. 27 seconds is an eternity in motocross, particularly on a track with short lap times like that. that's well over a full lap in a five lap moto. if you really improved that much then maybe you should bump up a couple of classes. either that or you had some major problems with your honda.

NVR FNSH · Oct 22, 2001

My question is 'what's wrong with your '97 CR250'? You cut that much time off on a bike that's not set up for you - is your bike set up for you? Or is it lacking in basic maintenance? Is your suspension set up for your weight/ability? How 'bout tires? I really don't think there is that much difference in power between the two. So where/what are the differences?

Bikes have not made a giant leap forward since '97. Granted, your bike is the first year of the aluminum frame.....

Brian

Honda318 · Oct 22, 2001

my bike is 100% stock so is the yz,im maken up most of the time in corners,i can come into the corners faster,go thew the corners faster and exit faster,my cr never wants to stay in the ruts and front end wants to wash out,im faster everyone on the track,the yz is ezer to keep on the pipe,my cr is mid-top,my cr has around 22hrs on it since stock

NVR FNSH · Oct 22, 2001

Have you played with the clickers on your bike? What tires are on your bike vs the YZ? I recently replaced the stock 739 on my WR with a 756 (I also raised the fork tubes at the same time) and it was night & day difference. You may have to spend some time getting your bike set up for you but I'd bet you can turn similar lap times on it without spending a bunch of money. Give it a shot - you might be surprised & learn something along the way.

Brian

Honda318 · Oct 22, 2001

i tryed messing with the clickers,i only made things worst,iwent back to the stock setting,wut are some things i can do to set my bike up for me w/o spending alot of money?i think my frame is just 2 ridgid,i cant do anything with my forks cause ill either have more headshake or slidout more,like i said both bike were stock includeing tires.

NVR FNSH · Oct 22, 2001

I'm no expert but here's a shot...

Have you set the sag? This will tell you if your spring rates are 'correct' and by adjusting the sag it will increase/decrease the weight distribution between the front & rear wheels. Standard for most bikes is ~100mm. The other thing you can do (I did this) is go to RaceTech's website and use their set up work sheet to see what spring rates they recommend for you. You can play with oil height in the fork. If you can't find a sweet spot within the range of adjustment then you may be in need of a re-valve. I'm at this point on my WR400 - just gonna bite the bullet & spend the cash.

Check to see what tires are stock on the YZ - they may be better suited for the terrain than what you're using.

Brian

Badgas · Oct 23, 2001

Aust 520exc:

I don't think that this is a mathematics forum, but guys 20% of Honda318 lap time on his honda is 20.8 seconds. His improvement from 1min 44 sec to 1min 17 sec on the Yammy is a 25.96% improvement on the honda

I don't believe you read thread. The argument is 80% rider 20% bike.

My mathematics are correct using Rockchuckers premise.

CR lap time = 1.44 min. = 104 sec.
YZ lap time = 1.17 min = 77 sec.

104 sec. - 77. sec = 27 sec.

77 sec. / 104 sec = .74 - 1 = 25.96% delta between the lap times.

Under the 80% / 20% rule, 80% of the delta has to come from the rider and 20% from the bike.

20% of 27 sec = 5.4 secs. attributed to the bike.

80% of 27 sec.= 21.6 sec. attributed to the rider.

Honda318 had a drop in lap times of 27 sec. or 25.96%. While I believe he may have had this incredible increase in speed. I find it very had to believe, under Rockchukers premise, Honda318's riding ability so dramatically improved in 30 mins. time as to contribute to a 21.6 sec. drop in his lap times.

rockchucker · Oct 23, 2001

Busted! My fuzzy mathematics have been exposed!

In my experience, some bikes are more "tuned" for certain riders than others. For example.. I can ride my baby YZF250 more consistently/smoothly than my past bikes. That consistency and smoothness has turned to speed. Is this to say the other bikes were crap? No, I do believe the bike does make a small difference. Maybe %20 is too much, maybe it's too little? At any rate being a fast rider is dependent more on exactly that... being a fast R I D E R. Blaming a bike for not being fast enough nowadays is just short of being in denial. Take some time, setup your bike for your needs and learn to adapt to it.

Badgas · Oct 23, 2001

rockchucker:

Busted! My fuzzy mathematics have been exposed!

Don't give it another thought. It happens to the best of us.:)

I have lost me zeal for this tread. I guess we will agree to disagree.

Have a good one!! Ride hard!!

Gas :cool:

Aust 520exc · Oct 23, 2001

You got me there Badgas:eek: :scream:

AJ Waggoner · Oct 23, 2001

i rode the 02yz250 again yesterday at the same track,my fastest lap time on my honda was 1:44,and my fastest on the yz was 1:17

If thats the case your CR likely has seriuos problems...

take 100 guys ..
and put them on those bikes "fresh"
there will not be that kind of diffrence in lap times - period.
( in that short of laps)

some lap varience sure!! ..but 27 seconds on a 1:17 lap.. :D

i really think no matter what modern 250 you were on if suspension was stock and fresh oil ..fresh engine clutches etc..
you couldnt have that kind of lap improvement.

most guys go faster on a new bike because it IS new and has new top end and clutch tires etc...etc...

i would be smoking larroco if i could cut 27 seconds off my laps.
where is that 02 YZ ? :)

Jaybird · Oct 23, 2001

My knee braces make me go WAY faster! :D
(think I'm joking don't you?)

80% rider 20% bike

Honda318

bud

cujet

mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream

KawieKX125

pyromaniac

Badgas

rockchucker

Honda318

rockchucker

Badgas

Aust 520exc

Honda318

mx547

Ortho doc's wet dream

NVR FNSH

Honda318

NVR FNSH

Honda318

NVR FNSH

Badgas

rockchucker

Badgas

Aust 520exc

AJ Waggoner

Crash Test Dummy

Jaybird

Apprentice Goon

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