A bike for Michigan ?

[3KDXXR2]

I've sold my 1990 kdx200, and Im thinking either a 450exc or a 300exc. I was all 450 but then I've been reading about all the extra maint. required for a 4s. I've ridden Dons bike (the Brick)and was really impressed with the suspension. I know most of you all have had some ride time on each others bikes so that is why Im posting here, Plus you all ride in Michigan were I like to ride the most.F&S Was your old bike a 300 or a 250.What is the maintenance difference with your 400/450.Fred how much better is the ktm suspension from the kdx.I rode my kdx mostly like a 4s when in the woods and would only really get on it on the moto track by me.I've heard some say the 300 is like a 3s with lots of torque down low.Ktmmike don't you have a 300 also I think I read that you tried out Terry's bike. All of your opinions are welcome.

 

[KTM Mike]

Well, with my opinion and 50 cent it might be worth a cup of coffee! I do have a 300 (a 2000). F&S's old 300 (a 99) now belongs to 2big4akdx. (who by the way, has kept his KDX and still finds he enjoys riding it depending on the circumstance)

I have not spent much time on a 4 strokes, so I have in no way been able to adapt to riding one. I rode a 450EXC a bit at trail fest two years ago - could not get a hang of the engine braking, but it was deceptively fast (in my own halffast way). I actually felt I liked the power of the CRF450 a bit better than the KTM, if anything for the Giggle Factor of it all. Giggle Factor does not necessarily add up to being effective in the woods though. One other factor (for me) why I dont care for the 4 strokes - it seems that to get decent power everyone goes to aftermarket silencers that are so LOUD....my 300 seems silent in comparison.

Right now, if i suddenly had the cash handed to me to go buy a new bike - I honestly dont think I would buy a 4 stroke. Call me old fashioned or what ever, but I just cant get away from the 2 strokes. 300s are almost like a 3 stroke - you can ride them lazy old man style (ie my style) , and so what if you are a few gears to high, just twist that throttle. It has the snap of a two stroke. All the maintenance horror storys of the 4 strokes do keep me away as well. (check out the recent articles in Dirt Rider - you dont see stuff like that about 2 strokes!). After riding Fred's 250 I would give that some serious thought as well...that baby is smoooth...way smoother power delivery than my 300. Some of that may be porting and pipe differences from my older bike to the newer ones. Riding his bike did lead me to buy a flywheel weight for my bike. (I think F&S used to run one as well?). Very high chance if I were to buy a new(er) bike it would be a 04 or 05 250 exc.
Jetting on the older 300s can be a pain, but once you get that dialed in, it does make for a huge improvement. I understand the newer ones are jetted way better from the start.

Now, take everything I said - and everything everyone else will say, and ignore it! Beg borrow or steal some rides on other bikes, and find what works for you...not for me, or anyone else! Head up north sometime and you can take my 300 for a spin if you want.

 

[3KDXXR2]

Mike thanks for the reply. Heading up north and riding by you is on my list of places to try.Thanks for the offer to try your bike I just might take you up on it.By the way what are you going to do with the old fork springs from your kdx. My 2000 220 has the stock springs and they are to soft.

 

[MWEISSEN]

FWIW, I rode four strokes for a few years and liked the motor's power, but got tired of the high $$$ for maintenance and top end repair. I went to a KTM 250 EX/C (Fred rode it and was hooked), and now ride a CR250. I think a two stroke is the way to go in Michigan trails because they're easier to work on, and I didn't get as tired as I did hauling around a 400 four stroke. The downside to a two stroke though is having to chase jetting a little more.

Try the 250EX/C before you settle on the 300. You may like it better, I know I did.

 

[KTM Mike]

Curtis

Just let me know when. Those heavier springs are already spoken for - sorry about that.

 

[woodsy]

HI Curtis:
Any additional thoughts on where/when your going to be rding this new bike would certaily help.. You gonna woods ride, duel sport, MX, winter ride, ice ride, dune ride??? Have you become adept at swapping rings and cleaning the KIPS on that KDX?? Are you a "put it away wet" type of person? Do you ride aggressively, stand alot or do you like to seat ride and enjoy the scenes?
Could you spend a couple more minutes defining your abilities for us.. Dont be afraid to admit your FASSSSST but also dont be afraid to admit you need to develop some of your skills.. You said "I rode my kdx mostly like a 4s when in the woods and would only really get on it on the moto track by me.".
Most certainly, NEVER to offend or hurt feelings, but if I am reading that your KDX was a hand full in the woods a KTM 300 EXC or even a 250 may be alot of bike for you.. I have spent ALOT of time in the woods on big bore 2 strokes and I gotta tell you, riding Larry's KTM 300 for a couple days was SHOCKING how simular to a big bore it was - can you say hyper velocity - fun, heck yes, but keep in mind that I was used to the slingshot effect!! I guess what I am saying is that you, and ONLY you can judge your abilities and how they stack-up to any given bike in any given situation...
I personally have been in MANY motorcycle race/riding situations and watched riders who could "own" the bike they were riding and put a major whooping on someone who's bike "owned" them.. Thusly leaving the "owned" rider frustrated and confused..
A perfect example of this happened a couple years ago as an unkown rider on a BBR XR200 gave a good friend (well, that maybe an exaggeration) of mine on his CRF450 (Chris can ride too) and myself EVERTHING we could handle to catch him. ANd he didnt even know we were chasing him :yikes: Simply put, he could ride PINNED all the time (HE OWNED THAT BIKE) and Chris on the CRF and me on the KX500 had to watch every twist of the throttle or it was serious biff time!!
Perhaps the best advice given at this point is found in the invite by Mike to go up and ride his bike...
If you could do that (test ride) with EVERY brand/model your are entertaining buying you would be doing yourself a HUGE favor!! Not only that, look at the GREAT people you would meet :cool:
Gotta agree with Mweissen about the 4 stroke issue. Of course, that 2002 CRF450 was sure a sweet ride though... I guess ol Woodsy has just never met a motorcycle that he didnt like... :eek:
Me

 

[70 marlin]

Just my feelings. I was told that the 300 can pound you hard in MI's tight woods. The 250 exc seems to be the bike of the choice for the last two years for the woods guy's? My brother rides a 200 exc and can't stop telling me how much easier it is in the woods and how much faster he can ride. Also how much longer he can ride till he tires. But he's the type of fellow that stay's on the pipe and keeps the rear tire spinning. I my self can't ride at that level for long! I find my self enjoying the ability to ride a gear higher and lug the machine, to have the torque to just twist the throttle and make just about any hill it’s pointed at. The four strokes are a bit heaver, but the gaps are narrower by the day! My Berg is very close to the weight of the kdx :nener: You’re correct, you must keep an eye on your preventive maintenance, valve adjustments, shorter piston life and bearing's you’ve never had to deal with on a two smoke. The cost is higher to own a RFS motor; I'll never go back to mixing oil again it's only money! By the way I rebuilt my kdx almost every year. My berg had a major failure at 1200 miles and the cost was about the same as doing a piston on my old kdx. When I service the crank & head the real money will be spent :yikes: Good luck with your research! :ride:

 

[Fred T]

Hey Curtis.
A KTM suspension wise is much better (vs KDX) especially for going fast but you can get it softened up for nice plush cruising ride too. I've really enjoyed my 250 EXC-and I'm on my 3rd one. The 2005 is pretty awesome-the best bike I've had by far. I would think from the limited time I have riding with you that you would enjoy a 250 EXC better than a 200. 300's may be nearly impossible to find anymore until the 2006 comes out. When do you plan to purchase? I know a nice little shop in Lansing that will take nice care of you at and after the sale.

 

[Don Marsh]

Curtis,
If you liked my suspention last year you should try it now! "The bricks" name should be changed to the "Marshmellow" As for mantinence I raced 14 Enduros & Hare scrambles & practice rode almost one night a week last year on the 04 and I adjusted the valves twice. This winter when I did a compression test it was still in specs. Use good oil & change it alot seems to be the key. Alot less mantanace than my KDX & KX was. But like every one else said, try differnt bikes before settling on one.
Don

 

[YZMAN400]

Ik I will pipe in also. Up till 1998 I had only ridden 2-strokes. I was at that time more into Mx than woods. I got a tast of the 1st 98 yz400 and went googoo over it. I am a somewhat lazy rider. On that 400 I could come out of a corner slow and with a quick twist of the wrist have more than enough speed to clear the folowing double. Something that I had to previousely needed to cary speed on my 2-stroke to clear. The 4-stroke made it so easier for me to clear the jumps I loved. I could be lazy, burp the throtle and be in hiper drive. The bottom end power waa incredible.

So In 1999 I bought my 1999 YZ400. I loved that bike. While I would discover that it wasn't a great woods bike (it was a mx bike after all) it was still a great all around bike. For 4 years I flogged that bike and the only maintance was changing the oil, brake pads, and chain and sprockets. That was it. I didn't even adjust the valves. It ran perfect. After 4 years I did finially tear into it and re-ring it and shim the valves. Try going 4 years on a heavily riden 2-stroke without re-ringing it.

I still have that 99 yz400. And to this day the maintance on the motor has been shiming the valves once, and installing new rings once. Bike still runs strong.

I now have a CRF250X. This bike is awsome. I bought it knowing that it is a tight nasty single track bike. It is not a top speed bike. Top speed is actually pretty low. But in the woods were you dont get above 3rd gear this bike does everything I need it to do. Its only downfall is the woops. A big bore can stay on top of the woops better than this little bike. But if you work it it will go thru the woops just fine.

I tend to ride my bikes using the low end power not the top end power. I think my luging the motor style is why the 4-strokes work better for me. And also probably has something to do with why my bikes last as long as they do. I hear of many people that run there 4-strokes like a 2-stroke, riht on the rev limiter, eating the valves out of them. My personal opinion is that the high rpm operation beats the heck outta the TI intake valves causing failer. I dont rev my bikes and have never had a valve go out.

My only major problem I had with my 400 (that I didn't list) is that I siezed the intake cam in the head. This was do to no fault of the bike but rather on my part. I over torqued the cam cap bolts when shimming the valves and the cam siezed from lack of clearance. This ate the cam journals in the head. A place in Cali fixed the head for me for $100. A new intake cam and I was in business.

There are days when I do miss a 2-stroke. But usually its on a MX track and not in the woods. The few times I have been on a 2-stroke in the woods lattely freeked me out. I swear that when you let off the gas coming into a corner the bike picks up speed. I have come dependent on compression braking.

 

[UP Magoo]

I started with a KDX200. Rode it stock a year, then did all the mods and rode it for two years. Next, I went to a KTM300, and spent the next year in complete and total fear of the thing! It will go fine down low like a 4 stroke, but watch out when you twist the grip! That thing scared me to death more than once! I rode a 300 for the next two years, and actually learned to ride it pretty well. The power still tended to get me in trouble, though. So last year I bought a KTM200. I LOVE this bike! I am a WAY better rider (faster, too) than I was on the 300. I always have the biggest grin when I ride this bike! I'm 6 foot, 185 lbs, and it has plenty of power -- whether lugging down low or screaming on top. Awesome bike for Michigan woods!
[shameless plug] FWIW, I'm getting a 2005 KTM200, so my 2004 KTM200 is for sale... [/shameless plug]

 

[3KDXXR2]

I have bee n hanging around this forum for about 3 yrs now, and that is why I posted this question here rather than "What Bike Do I Get". You guys are a wealth of knowledge, and the best writers on this forum, Thank you for all your input. Woodsy, my favorite riding is in Michigan I love the single track. I have ridden 3 enduros (10 yrs ago) and always managed to hr out. So my riding skill is probably low c class. The description of how yzman rides is similar to my style I will ride a gear high and just try to stay smooth. When I get aggressive I don’t sit down , And when I get to a whop section I like to hang my but off the back fender and hammer Them trying to stay on top . This is the biggest reason I want a new bike, I want some modern suspension so I can beat up the whoops and not get beaten up by them. When I rode Don Marshes Bike it really handled the whoops. I also ride on a Moto Track That in a riding area near Ottawa IL. Riding there they have a lot of jumps and I’m not afraid to get some decent air to clear a table top. I even tried to double up a section of 4jumps once but that left me with a couple of broken ribs as my rear tire clipped the top of the 4th jump. I think I like to blame that on the suspension of my 90 kdx200. I have even considered trying enduros again. (Some of you are talking about the Byron enduro, that’s about 1 hr. from my house.) Mike I to have been reading about 4s maint. And it seems like a lot more than a 2s. What does ride it and put it away wet mean? The only 4s that I have ridden are a 1978 tt500 I was 18 and I loved the way the power came on you would twist the throttle and as much as you twisted was as much as you got smooth no surprises. Then I rode Dons Bike at trail fest loved the suspension but it didn’t seem to rev fast or have much down low , But I got into a little trouble going up a hill and had to give it more gas and was surprised by the power no big hit but it really rescued me and seemed quite manageable. Hope this helps to answer about my abilities.

 

[70 marlin]

Curtis, The Second Annual Cedar Creek “I'm ready for spring ride” is just around the corner. If you want come ride one of my Bergs and see if you like the bigger bore power? Aaron's bike is a FE 400 and is more of a plush bike plus, you need to rev it a little higher. My bike is a FX 470 it has the MX suspension and the big bore feeling.

 

[84XRGuy]

I used to ride a 4 stroke XR and am now on a GasGas EC300, I would never go back to a stroker. The power delivery on the gasser is so 4 stroke like you wouldn't believe it, VERY easy to ride all day. What I like the most is the lower center of gravity and the lighter weight of the EC, makes you much less tired in the single track.

I did ride a EXC400 last year and although the lack of vibration was nice, I just couldn't get going as fast as I could on the EC. Interesting point is that the guy I switched bikes with was faster on my bike than on his own EXC400.


Warren

 

[3KDXXR2]

MWEISSEN what kind of 4s did you have and what kind maint did you have to do.

 

[Tom Cox]

Hi,
Here's my 10 cents and with enough money you can have coffee. How old are you? Are you going to get faster? Are you going to get in better shape? The more powerful the bike is, the more these factors come into play. If you ride in the woods most of the time, buy what works for you in the woods.
I've had a Husaberg, KTM, KX, Husky, still have the Honda CR and spend most of my time on the KDX 220 because it will do everything I need it to do. It doesn't foul plugs like the KX did. It didn't destroy the transmission and engine cases in the first 5 minutes of riding as the Husaberg did. The centrifugal forces of a big 4-stroke engine is not conducive to turning in tight woods. It's a physics thing. You have to adapt your riding style to make them turn.
I can set the suspension for woods riding in Michigan, ride in the rocks of Missouri or Colorado and crank it for whoops if necessary. I just could never get the suspension on the KTM right. Yes I have heavier fork springs and had the suspension revalved by Enduro Engineering.
Every motorcycle has maintenance requirements. Some more than others. Do you have the tools and knowledge to rebuild and perform the routine maintenance the 4-strokes require? You already understand and can perform the maintenance required for a 2-stroke. Are there times I miss the power of a 250 or bigger machine, Yes. However that only means I have to ride a little harder in the sand at times. I installed a grease zerk to grease the fork stem, the kick starter and rear brake levers. Give them a shot of grease after each washing. A properly cleaned and maintained air filter, change the transmission fluid regularly and the KDX engine will last as long as any other manufacturer. Use synthetic oil with the gas and you minimize the carbon build up in the exhaust and power valves. These things can be said about any manufacturers bike. As I said in the begining, buy what works for you. If you think you need a change go for it. You'll learn from it.
It's a 8 hour drive to get to our first riding area in Michigan. We make the trip twice a year. Colorado is every August for a week.

 

[BigEasy]

Looks to me as though I will be the guy with the M1 tank that appears to be a XR650r. Oh well, I need a good workout anyway. My needs were vast though, as I wanted a bike I could ride 65 mph down the road to the next set of singles, berp down miles of two tracks and dirt roads. I found a 2001 650r with HRC cam, uncorked stock pipe, a baja designs street kit, and a bunch of other goodies. Not saying I wont and I am sure I will find something smaller that will fit the bill. But for the price it is a fine (re) starter bike.

 

[michigan]

Well, I am Michigan, and my next bike will be a 250e/xc. Light weight and zappy power.
If I felt like spending a little more, I'd get a yz or cr and convert it for woods use, but I will probably go with the KTM.
If I ever hit the lottery, I might consider a new RFS, but I'll bet I'd still be faster on a lightweight two-stroke.

 

[SGJ_Johansen]

Michigan sounds like you made up your mind, you will like the motor of the KTM 250, But I bet ya 10,000 dinar that you will hate the stock seat. (Oh $10,000 Dinar is like 1.53446 cents) :laugh: I ride a 03 KTM 200 with 13/46 sprockets comes stock 13/48. I love this bike, cept for the seat. I came off from a 01 DRZ 400. love that bike too, best engine power and ridable power I have ever had. The DRZ is IMHO the best play bike ever. I could even pass some of the guys here on it. I will not tell who I could pass. Ya'll know who. :p

But after 2 years I missed the zing of the 2 stroke. And I wanted something lighter in weight. Personally some sections I ride I was faster on the DRZ and some places I am faster on the 200. I'll give you a tip. If you can find a 03 200 get it. It will purr in the woods and rip on the track. :boss:

Good luck, God Speed and see ya when I get back from Iraq

Brian