A little question: 1986 vs. 2003

scar tissue · Nov 7, 2002

Originally posted by Hucker
Ha ha, you guys need to look north of the border and see how much we pay.

Brand new '03 CRF450R $8199.

Ad tax to that.. 15% for a grand total of almost $9500. And remember, this is for a bike you ride on weekends, in the dirt :uh:

Yes but if you play it right and buy from another country at the right time you can save huge $$$.

Example= last year a wr250f here locally after taxes and all was
$6200.00 US, I bought mine from Canada used the exchange rate in my favor and paid only $4500 US including shipping. :)

Currently I'm considering getting a 03 CRF450 for $5000 including shipping. :yeehaw: The best out the door deal I can find locally is $7200.

Basically I can ride for a year and sell my bike for what I paid for it and get a new one. the only real cost to me is the add on stuff I can't resist. Scotts damper, pro tapers etc. :thumb:

We all have a computer work the system if you can. :thumb:

BadgerMan · Nov 7, 2002

Good thinking!

A friend of mine has purchased a boat motor and a couple XR’s for his kids from a Honda dealer close to the USA/Canada border. He claims he got killer deals. I hear that some of these dealers are real savy about selling to US customers and getting the stuff through customs.

I saw a new WR250F last summer in Canada that had a list price of $7200.00 ($4800.00 US). That was before any kind of dealing. I am guessing that the dealer would have knocked a couple hundred or more off the list price.

scar tissue · Nov 7, 2002

Yep there was a little more haggleing. Buying a dirt bike in December from a winter area like Canada has some advantages.

If you buy a not so popular item, the deals get even better. As the 4 strokes are really hot now, I've seen some screaming deals on 2 strokes from up there.

tcsenter · Nov 7, 2002

It really had nothing to do with the bike makers. Chalk it up to the recession, Reaganomics, and the close of the "Big Spending" days of the '80's. If I remember correctly the S&L and Junk Bonds Scandals had alot to do with prices going through the roof about that time.

Ok, ok, I hadn't really anticipated that my question would invite the conspiracy and political theorists blaming Greenspan, the Illuminati, the Tri-lateral Council, the masons and alien landings. But hey, its the internet, just asking a simple question like "what time is it?" will invite all kinds of responses.

Nothing else inordinately increased during that time, this increase was almost exclusively limited to Japanese imports; motorcycles and ATV's, namely. That is why I didn't go to a different forum and pose a more generalized question about the drastic price increases of the late 80's which affected everything...because it didn't affect everything.

Thanks for your input, though, and yes I will keep my eye on those mischievous masons and trilateral council.

ochster · Nov 8, 2002

I specifically remember reading a article by Decoster around 90-91, where he stated the cost of racing was simply going way up. This was also a time of big salaries, for some riders Mcgrath, Bradshaw, Keidrowski, Stanton, Johnson, etc. Theres no doubt, there making more $ on fewer units, it is a business. I find I buy as many as I alway's have.

IrishEKU · Nov 8, 2002

Originally posted by tcsenter
Ok, ok, I hadn't really anticipated that my question would invite the conspiracy and political theorists blaming Greenspan, the Illuminati, the Tri-lateral Council, the masons and alien landings. But hey, its the internet, just asking a simple question like "what time is it?" will invite all kinds of responses.

Nothing else inordinately increased during that time, this increase was almost exclusively limited to Japanese imports; motorcycles and ATV's, namely. That is why I didn't go to a different forum and pose a more generalized question about the drastic price increases of the late 80's which affected everything...because it didn't affect everything.

Thanks for your input, though, and yes I will keep my eye on those mischievous masons and trilateral council.

Friend, your a new member so I will take it easy on you. Everything I mentioned is fact. There is no conspiracy theory involved. You however seem to think that there is one and only one reason that prices took an extrordanary jump in the course of a couple of years. Being a couple of years older than myself you should remember the tail end of the '80's as well as I do. :silly: If you remember correctly it was about this time the eco-movment really started rolling and restrictions on emissions started taking hold. Hence the rise in production costs from the need to reenginer product coming out of Asia.

MikeT · Nov 8, 2002

Originally posted by IrishEKU

:think: It really had nothing to do with the bike makers. Chalk it up to the recession, Reaganomics, and the close of the "Big Spending" days of the '80's. If I remember correctly the S&L and Junk Bonds Scandals had alot to do with prices going through the roof about that time. I was in HS at the time and the cost of everything rose exponentially with the fluxuations of the market.

Ahh, Irish, that is exactly what I was talking about. The reason everything else went up was because the US Dollar went down, so it took more dollars to buy something, same thing with the bikes. That was what I was talking about . I'm not sure what you were thinking I meant... :think:

JasonJ · Nov 8, 2002

Thats why I always find a very good bike that is ahead of its time when it comes out and wait about 3 years and get the second production year of the the bike used when its a year old,,, did you follow that??? LOL. I get the second or third production year to wait for the bugs to be exposed and ironed out. Then, I keep the bike untill I see a new bike so compelling that it makes me have to consider it,,, for 3 year!!! Let the raceres tweak up their brand new bikes and sell them every year cover the R and D on the bikes,,,, not me.
Sold my 81? IT 250 for a 88 YZ 250 and keept that as a spare bike when I bought my 99 WR 400 in 2001, sold the YZ this year when I realized,,,, I dont need a spare bike and someone offerd me what I paid for it!! :thumb:
Buy cheap, ride smart, sell high, have fun!!!!! :aj:
BTW, I drive an 86 Mustang and an 86 VFR 750,,, fastest VFR 750 made,, still rocks!!! Both are worth about twice what I paid for them.

Oh hey, and let not forget that it was 86 or 87 ish when 3 wheelers VERY popular at the time were outlawed in the US with some very negitive publicity all around for ATVs!!! That had to take a chunck out of the ATV market, I suppose the Japs needed to recover anticipated lost revenue there.

OnAnySunday · Nov 8, 2002

Originally posted by tcsenter:
"Today, a new CR125R is $5,000 (MSRP) - Good God Almighty!"
I think i still have the reciept for my 1974 CR125 Elsinore around somewhere.
If i recall it was about $790 something.....

"And does anyone else besides me who bought a bike or three during the 80's feel that $5,000 for a new 125cc is just outrageous on the grounds that motorcross bikes today aren't all that damned 'better' than a $1998.00 1986 model?"
Dollar for dollar i agree.
But then again i dont really like anything -w- less than 400cc's anymore anyways..... :confused:

"I don't see how they're any more reliable"
Also agreed. I keep hearing about how these '00's & '01's are already on their first or second overbores.
When my '79 YZ400 tuckered out last year we tore it down and found it to be on it's FIRST overbore. First in 22 years.
As they say these days.....what up wit dat??? :eek:

HomeMadeSin · Nov 9, 2002

This issue has bugged me since I got back into riding after 15 years out. I think several things must've happened at once. I thought that the bikes got caught up in the import tariff hike that the Big 3 automakers lobbied to get to save there a$$. If you recall (for those that know what an LP is), Jap cars used to be cheap too.....

This isn't merely a memory trip recalling $0.75/gal gas. Something funky went on. :|

To throw some numbers out, I sold a '84 CR250 (rock solid bike, BTW) in '86 or '87 for $950. I'm sure I could get that now, even with solid time on it over the years.

Hucker · Nov 10, 2002

Originally posted by scar tissue

Yes but if you play it right and buy from another country at the right time you can save huge $$$.

Did you notice the little Canadian flag under my name?? I can't save anything :) You yanks can, but I can't. Unless you re-sell it to me at a rediculously low price :p

toalco-kdx · Dec 1, 2002

In canada msrp on a cr125 is $6799.00 and the crf 450 is $8099.00 then there is 7% gst.

Sawblade · Dec 1, 2002

Originally posted by jeffd
Don't forget about the AMA changing the "production" rules too. As I recall, that was somewhere near the same time frame.

Ah.... The days of the works bikes when everything was hand-made!

-jeffd

The production rule went into effect at the start of the 1986 season.

True works bikes... :) The sport lost something when we lost works bikes.

At the end of 1979 my dad bought me a left over PE 175, paid $1295 out the door. If I financed a new bike to day $1295 is what I would have to come up with for a down payment and tax!

kbud · Dec 2, 2002

Originally posted by Tony Eeds

There is going to be hell to pay in the not to distant future for the way we are mortgaging our future for our present.

I agree. People aren't lookin into the future. I'm really not lookin forward to the day when the U.S. dollar is worth nothing. Then there's the population. There wont be any farms or wildlife or places to ride. Theres gonna be people EVERYWHERE. I just hope that doesnt happen in my lifetime.

MikeT · Dec 3, 2002

Originally posted by kbud

Then there's the population. There wont be any farms or wildlife or places to ride. Theres gonna be people EVERYWHERE. I just hope that doesnt happen in my lifetime.

Regugitated perfectly kbud. You took their bait hook line and sinker. Do you realize that you just restated what the wacko enviormentalists want us to believe. Go and take a ride in a plane sometime, look out the window and what do you see? Trees, and lots of them. There is plenty of room here on this planet and the second you think we are running out of space, is the second you have fallen to believe their wacko agenda. Seriously, the HUGE majority of the land in this country is completely undeveloped and untouched. I think all of the enviros live in the dense cities and they believe that it is like that everywhere. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Please don't believe that junk they spew out.

Zoomer · Dec 3, 2002

IMHO, I think another big factor to the high jump in whole goods came from the people that figured out that they could get rich over night if they got hurt on a off road vehicle! If I remember right the first large law suit against Honda for a young boy that got killed came around the late 70's. (An 8 year old boy was out riding by him self while mom and dad where in the house watching TV!) Honda's fault :silly: You would be surprised to find out how much liability insurance is included in those high MSRP's You don't think that Honda, Kaw, Suzuki where going to make up that money paid out to those rediculous, frivolous law suits? Things have progressed, you don't have to go buy motorcycles or 4 wheelers and get hurt, you just have to go down to McD"s,Burger King etc, and eat to much! :yeehaw:

Rattletrap'83CR480 · Dec 3, 2002

Originally posted by Hucker
Brand new '03 CRF450R $8199. Add tax to that.. 15% for a grand total of almost $9500

Is that in US or Canuck dolleros? :yeehaw: With the exchange rate the way it is, it might be worth it to make a run up there. Do you think they sell dirt bikes in a Duty Free Shop up there?

kbud · Dec 3, 2002

I agree Mike T, BUT with the population growing like it is, there wont be anything but houses. I am NOT and never will be a tree hugger but its just the thought that scares me.

MikeT · Dec 4, 2002

I don't think anyone has anything to worry about.

geremacheks · Dec 4, 2002

Well, just to keep the field level here, the moon has lots of space too, but it's not livable.

Our dessert states have big city populations and those people are often wondering now why they live there. It wasn't too bad when they had available water. Now they fight over it. And the quanities are getting smaller. A long, scarry drought can change people populaltions in a hurry.

KaTooMer · Dec 4, 2002

And now, the economic analysis you've all been waiting for. Try not to let your eyes glaze over too much, while I explain why the cost of new bikes in 2003 isn't that much more than 1986:

1. The Consumer Price Index has increased by 64% . The CPI is something we use to measure inflation. Pocket-protected economists actually go out and price a bunch of stuff -- food, clothes, gas, cars, etc. -- and compare differences between the historical prices of the same stuff to measure inflation. In 1986 the CPI was 109.6; in 2002 the CPI is estimated at 179.5. In other words, if you bought something for $109.60 in 1986, it should cost $179.50 today (see http://minneapolisfed.org/research/data/us/calc/hist1913.cfm)

2. The dollar/yen exchange rate is working against us . In June of 1986, one dollar could buy 167.54 yen. Today, it only buys 121.61 yen (see http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred/data/exchange/exjpus).

So here's my math:

Inflation-adjusted price of 1986 125 MX'er:
1986 = $2,000
+ 64%=$1,275
2002 cost = $3,275 .

Now, figure the effects of the exchange rate:

$3,275 x 167.54 yen (1986 rate) = 548,694 yen
$3,275 x 121.61 yen (2002 rate) = 398,273 yen

The bike still costs 548,694 yen in 2002, but the $3,275 which bought that amount of yen in 1986 only buys 398,273 yen today. So you've got to come up with the additional 150,512 yen, at a cost of $1,238 (150,512/121.61)

$3,275 + $1,238 = $4,513 .

So, the 1986 bike should cost $4,513 today. That extra $500 would cover all the wonderful technology advances that have occurred in the last 16 years. I think I'm willing to accept that...how 'bout you?

Qualifying Statement of Release from Any and All Liability Associated With Writer's Claim to Know Anything About Economics:
I am a banker, not an economist. Whether or not the above analysis is correct, I don't care. It just makes me feel better.

BadgerMan · Dec 4, 2002

Originally posted by MikeT
Trees, and lots of them.

Yeah, and I have hit most of them!

I heard a factoid recently that there are more trees in the USofA today than there were in the year 1900. So, put that in your pipe and smoke it! ;)

MikeT · Dec 5, 2002

Originally posted by KaTooMer
So, the 1986 bike should cost $4,513 today. That extra $500 would cover all the wonderful technology advances that have occurred in the last 16 years.

Ahh, Teacher, Where did you get the $500 from? I took $4513-$3275=$1238.... So Doesn't the bike cost $1238 more? I am not an economist either. Am I right or wrong or just still confused? :confused:

dirt bike dave · Dec 5, 2002

MikeT - I think he means the 'extra' $500 is the cost difference between $4513 (what a 1986 bike would sell for if made today) and a new, much better bike costing $5,000+-.

Erick82 · Dec 5, 2002

KaTooMer, you have way to much time on your hands. I am also a banker/commercial loan officer. I feal your price analysis is right on, I think the poblem with society and debt in general is everything else that people think they need. Just look at the crap people waste there money on today and all the credit thay have available to do so. Electric this, high tec that and so on. Also, in general our socoity has changed dramatically. People use to mow there own grass, people use to change thier own oil, people use to work on there own stuff. Now, it is throw it away and go finace new.

A little question: 1986 vs. 2003

scar tissue

BadgerMan

scar tissue

tcsenter

ochster

IrishEKU

A General PITA.

MikeT

JasonJ

OnAnySunday

Big Pig

HomeMadeSin

Hucker

toalco-kdx

Sawblade

Timmy Timmy Timmy!

kbud

MikeT

Zoomer

Rattletrap'83CR480

kbud

MikeT

geremacheks

KaTooMer

BadgerMan

MikeT

dirt bike dave

Sponsoring Member

Erick82

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A little question: 1986 vs. 2003

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