Alternate Jet Needles

[23jayhawk]

What are some optional needles to try out on a post-95 200 WITHOUT the RB carb mod? And what changes did you find in power delivery, throttle response, etc.

I might fool around with jetting a bit this winter just to see the affect various tapers make. Seems like all the needle discussions relate to the RB carbs, and I'm curious what others have actually used in a stock 35mm.

 

[canyncarvr]

For starters:

From JD:I will go out on a limb and speculate that Kawasaki thought this would be a sweet play bike and need very clean jetting. So they put a lean straight diameter (2.725, or 2.735) , a lean taper (1.25 degrees) , and a lean clip position (L1=39.95) and then came up with 1172N or 1173N. The higher taper start is throwing you guys off track by being lean then rich then lean in an extreme and (to date) unexplained way.

And:

The plate is an interesting concept to study but the changes with the most impact described on this modified carb are the needle taper(1 degree vs 1.5 degree standard) and slide cutaway(#7 vs #5 stock).

So...forget about the divider being a big issue when you're reading about jetting. Look for the #5 TV inputs.


Which gets you this:

From fishhead: Based on my recent ride testing the CEL-2 or 3 with the #5 slide would be a viable choice

All of the above from the archived thread:
http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19686&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=4

Jetting is FUN!!!.......right??

 

[Mac]

My carb is stock 35mm but engine is bored to 225cc. I tried CEK and CEL with #5 slide but they were way too rich down low. Bike wouldn't idle and plug loaded up easily even with 42 pilot. Finally settled on CCN which is somewhere between stock and CEL.

Check this chart for help<HERE>

 

[canyncarvr]

I looked for only a short while...but I read on EGs site just last week notes regarding big bores (specifically kdx) and jetting changes. Something rings a bell about the 42..but I can't verify what.

A 42 pilot is too rich with almost everything in my 200...BEL/2, CEK/4, even an R1174L!...#6 and #7 TVs. I've run down to a 35 pilot at times.

In any case, jay's 200 is going to be considerably different than mac's ('where's my 110+ fuel for this thing!!') 11:1 (thassa a joke, son!) 225.;)

On GP...note (jay) that a CCN is going to be about 2 clips richer 'out of the box' so to speak..CCN=36.35mm. CEL=38.60mm L1. In JD's spreadsheet, a CCN/2 compares almost perfectly to a CEL/4 excepting diameter differences.

Bottom line on the whole thing is going to be 'whatever works for you.'

Read through the archived RB thread for some good info from JD and others (fishhead and dan) regarding jetting in general and how needle diameters effect 'stuff'. That was the point of the quotes above...to lure you into some 'light reading'.

jay: Get a range of needles to try. Just one won't do it. Keep in mind that a lean (large diameter) needle is going to tend to what you may sense as slugishness. More aptly described as 'even, no hit' power.

The chart in mac's post is an excellent source to get a 'sense' of direction with needles.

JD's jetting spreadsheet is a HUGE help. Treat yourself to one.

Good luck! Have fun!!!!

 

[acutemp]

jayhawk,
I've worked through e-mails with several guy's this summer to help them set up their kdx's with "alternate" needles in their stock carb's. One was a stock 220 with a k-35 pipe and 33mm carb. I sent him a few needles to try and his favorites were the BEM#3 and for what he refered to as "rock crawling" an AEN#4. I didn't send a BEN so he didn't try that setup. The other bikes were 200's with stock motors and carbs and most of them prefered the BEM for smoothness or with the k-35 pipe and CEM's with the k-30's and pro circuit pipes, although one guy prefered a CEL. These were all run with #5 slides although I did lend one guy my #6 and #7 slides and his favorite setup did end up real close to what most are running with their RB carbs, a 40p/CEK#3/155 main with the #7 slide. I did also have him try a couple of triple taper needles but he found that they were to rich at 1/4 throttle and would load up pretty easy which is much the same results that I had with them. The modified (ported) bikes seem to like a bit richer setup and usually end up with a step richer (straight section) needle than non ported bikes.

Mac,
Have you tried any D taper needles in your 225? I would think that this would be a good choice for your bike as they seem to work well with more aggressive motor setups. A DEL,DDL,DEM,DDM might be worth a try. I have run a DDK in my 200 and it ran really strong although it is better for more open area's as it did produce quite a hit when the power came on.

Good luck and be sure to report back with your result's. There is still plenty of testing to be done and it all help's.
--Dan

 

[Mac]

I'm trying to decide weather to break out the needles or just wait and get the R&B carb mod first.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[23jayhawk]

Thanks for all the suggestions - just ordered a BEM, CEM and CCN from Sudco. That should be a good range to choose from, and keep me out of trouble until spring...

 

[acutemp]

Mac,
I think that the D taper needles would be worth a look even if you are going to have your carb modified at some point. Another idea if you are looking to increase your top end on your 225 would be to look for a 38mm pwk and have it modified. I am working with the jetting on a new 38mm airstriker that Ron modified for me and will let you know how it works out. I have a modified 39mm also and although it pulled suprisingly well off of the bottom it was a bit to much carb for my 200. You could probably pick up a good used 38mm and have it plated for about what it would cost to modify your 35mm and you would always have the option to go back to the stocker for the tight stuff. :cool:
jayhawk,
Glad to hear that you are up for some testing, I'm not so sure about it keeping you out of trouble though. Crisp jetting and the benifit's can be addicting. :thumb:
--Dan