AMA GNCC series vs Hare Scrambles Series

[Tom H]

Can someone tell me the difference between these two series? They seem so similar, and they have the same riders. Are the courses layed out differently? Are the rules different? What makes a Hare Scrambles different from a Cross Country race?

 

[PaulXR]

These ARE very close together type of races, the GNCC is more east coast centered and the Hare Scrambles is more west coast centered. Other that that they are about the same.

 

[scrambler220]

I hope I'm remembering this right, if not somebody please correct me. Way back when, Davey Coombs ran the 100-miler series, which was at the time considered to be the equivilent of a national hare scramble title. Among other control issues, the AMA wanted to make it a nationwide series. There was a dispute, and Coombs created the GNCC and AMA started the National Hare Scramble series. As Tom said, there is no significant differnce, other than location. In fact, some of the races are run together (The NC GNCC and I believe Loretta Lynn's). Again, if I've got my facts mixed up, somebody straighten it out

 

[MikeS]

Yep you guys got it. Another thing is I believe the GNCC is put together by one promoter while the National Hs can be any local organization that put's in it's request for one and happens to get recognized as a national.

Scoring at the GNCC is trick with barcode and set up. Corses are very close in terrain and layouts, lenght difficulty etc.

Rules are close..classes for most are close...minor differences since Nationals may run a specific district format or class. The pro classes are the same.

 

[enduro8]

There are only 2 national hare scrambles on the west coast or even west of the mississippi i think. would not call it a west coast centered series.

 

[PaulXR]

Ok west coast is not a good description of the series, maybe west coast/mid west then? They are NOT east coast races for sure. At any rate they are almost the same kind of race.

 

[FlyinRyan]

Antoher difference is that the National Hare Scramble series does not run the Quads on Saturday (except for a select few combined GNCC / HS races) like the GNCC races do. This means that you get a little more single track at the HS races than the GNCC. I ran the HS series from 93-97 and prefered them over the GNCC due to this fact (plus I wasn't fast enough to hang with the GNCC guys). Also as MikeS said that local clubs put on the HS series and the schedule changes from year to year (different locations) and the trails aren't as beat up sometimes. The GNCC run the some locations almost every year and some locations are getting pretty torn up IMO.

 

[Mowboy]

Another notable difference, a big one in my opinion, is what happens on saturday. At a GNCC up to 400 Quads are chewing up the majority of the trail the bikes ride on Sunday. There may be a couple of miles of "bike only" trail, but on a 10-16 mile course that is not much. This makes my decision a no brainer as to what is generally a better course. That is, of course, with the exception of the three combined rounds(North Carolina, Loretta's and the John Penton in Ohio) I am not saying the NHS are always better, but on average the courses are better are better and more bike oriented.

 

[Coathanger]

arn't gncc races 3 hours long and n.h.s races 2 hours.

 

[MikeS]

Some nationals are 3 hours or atleast the A / AA riders do the extra loops.:)

 

[FlyinRyan]

Both are 3 hours, some of the HS cut the B & C off at 2 hours.

 

[endoquest]

There will be three Hare Scrambles west this year: Hollister CA, Elkton OR, and a new one in Colorado. I set up the Elkton course for motorcycles only, no quads. Having quads severely hampers your course in hilly terrain, off camber and tight woods. Quad racing doesn't exist in Oregon anyway.
I also set it up as a racer's course, not a spectator's course, even though there was a 1.2-mile grass track. Laps were 30 minutes/14 miles. I also ran two days, Amateurs on Saturday and Pro/Expert on Sunday. This year I plan on running even more single track and gnarl. We ran 3-hours each day. The WORCS series is more of a spectator-oriented format and will be growing every year from now on, just like the GNCC. A lot of the Pros that I spoke to at the Clarks Branch round are getting tired of the same old courses of the GNCC. Oregon and Washington will have a lot of National caliber races next year. I'm stoked.

 

[KevinB4stk]

All of the GNCC's I have run you don't even need bark busters, just some roost deflectors, unless you fall over wich I do frequently.
The guy's that do the jeep thing around here would be able to go through any of these corses and have a ball.
National Hare Scrambles is what I prefer because of the corses are generaly tighter for the bikes and are designed for bikes.
The Sunday morning 2 hr race is what I will be doing if I go to any more GNCC'c. The Sunday afternoon 3 hr race is just to much for me now and the corse just gets too ragged out.

 

[endoquest]

Question: What's more important, a race that has media and spectator popularity or a race that the racer's will enjoy/be challenged with?

 

[Tom H]

Endoqwest, I think the answer, if an off-road race series is to be truely successful, would be both. If the riders like the course,and the race is well ran, they will be back. If the Media and spectators like it, it will gain noteriety, and will more likely be ran again too. We are facing a lot of adversity from outside the sport in the off road racing world. The more fans and allies we have, the longer we can survive and the stronger we can become.
Look at GNC Flat track racing. It's fan and media support keeps slowly eroding. And the sport, as great as it is, is in pretty sad shape.
Cross country forms of racing are inherently difficult to observe as a fan, but I have been to some that have kept fans in mind and are fun to go to observe. If you are accompanying a friend or your kid to a race, it is a lot nicer if you can stay involved by watching at least some of it and have an idea of what is going on. Any racer will tell you that it stokes them a bit more to have an audience.