robwbright
Member
- Apr 8, 2005
- 2,283
- 0
As some of you know, I've been pondering a 250f purchase . . . so you know I'm not opposed to the 4 strokes anymore.
However, I thought this post was interesting. Some will like it, some will hate it. Please note that the guy's blog is titled "Eternal Two Stroke", so you can imagine where he's coming from. Cool blog, regardless.
His blog is at:
http://www.eternaltwostroke.com/
The post I'm talking about is at:
http://www.eternaltwostroke.com/2008/04/arm-and-leg.html
And here's the text - although I'd encourage everybody to check out his blog on MX.
----------------------------------
BEGIN POST
Mark these words.
The cost of racing will drive out the people that make our sport so good.
Just look at nascar. How in the heck would you ever go pro in that? Buy your own car like Ricky's? No. Try dirt track? No. Car racing has almost become reserved for the rich of wallet, not the most talented. Hell, I would LOVE to race cars, or shifter carts, or some sort of 4 wheeled vehicle, but I just plain can't afford to.
Here is the motocross story, before it goes extinct.
First came the four strokes.
Yeay for more usable power!
Yeayfor no more fouled plugs!
Yeay for no more premix!
Yeay for no more religious top end rebuilds!
But should we say:
Yeay for 2000 dollar engine rebuilds?
Yeay for heavier bikes?
Yeay for 5000 dollar mod bikes?
Yeay for increased part wear (tires, chains, sprockets)?
Yeay for more expensive purchase prices?
Yeay for the "neutral only start" routine?
Yeay for the death of the used bike market?
With the introduction of the four stroke in to main stream racing, you bought a lot more for each bike.
Valves (originally titanium)
Cams
Cool pistons
Oil pumps
Titanium exhausts
Carburetors with fuel squirter's (accelerator pump).
The four stroke is a technical marvel, but think for a second. Which bike requires more of a tuning knowledge? I feel the two stroke is magnanimously cooler when you look at the actual science behind the tuning.
Four strokes: more air in, higher revs, more power out.
The two stroke is a constant balance between power and ride ability.
Four strokes were great when Yamaha released them. The required almost ZERO maintenance, and were easy to go fast on for everyone. People no longer had to ride on the pipe, and the gap between beginner to novice to intermediate closed substantially.
But then came the problems (although I would like to say leave Yamaha out of it). When bikes blew up, they BLEW UP! (Ready, Inhale!) Now, a new crank was needed when the piston abruptly stopped moving from the valves sticking open because a 5 dollar valve keeper got loose requiring a new cylinder combined with a new head because the valve destroyed it (Phew! exhale!). Oil starvation required new cams and heads, sometimes a piston, and don't count out a crank after you fix the aforementioned problems because the effects of oil starvation weren't present during the rebuild. After a new reciprocating assembly, your transmission goes out, because the root of your oil starvation problems are a 3 dollar crank seal.
Then the used bike dilemma surfaced. With a particular brand of bikes experiencing valve recession, when you bought a bike, it was only a matter of time.
TICK, TOCK,
TICK, TOCK
BOOOM! There goes your brand "new" used bike.
People, realizing the problem, did a couple things. First, many completely serviced their "new" used bike, checking and often replacing every part necessary. Second, others bought new bikes only. Many raced a year, traded in, and raced another year, dumping off their used steed to some poor soul.
Of course, dealers were happy, they were selling an abundance of high mark up parts, and it wasn't their fault the bikes were breaking! They also got more shop business because the public were duped into thinking the four stroke is hard to work on.
Manufacturers were happy, they were selling more new bikes than ever, and they were selling more parts than ever, in part because mags were all raving the how great four strokes were, and in part because the pros were slowly coming round to the four stroke.
The aftermarket was happy. Exhausts now cost upwards of a grand, motor mods over a grand, pistons two hundred, weird trinkets and triple clamps surfaced to make the four stroke handle better like the two stroke. With valve failures, the aftermarket could now offer "upgraded" parts to make the bike last longer.
So yeay. Yeay for a thriving bike economy, yeay for cool technology, and yeay for faster riders.
But not really. With EFI on the horizon, jetting is no longer know how and a 2 dollar jet or a free change of the needle position. Now a computer tuner is needed when you add an aftermarket exhaust or air filter, and even more sad is that the stock jetting can be wrong.
A computer science degree is needed to work the systems. Don't beleive me? Just read about how horrible the Suzuki is stock, and how much worse the problem is with a pipe. The tuners are easily 500 bucks.
And the used bikes are REALLY in trouble. Now you may need a new injector, fuel pump or will think you do when a wire goes astray.
All for what? Did EFI really make the Suzuki better? No, it did horribly in the reviews. Did four strokes make the sport better? No, I see less and less riders every year at my local track, and it used to be packed, every practice. Now the track can barely stay afloat, and race turnouts are barely making three to a class. Are riders truly faster? The clock may say so, but their skill would belay the numbers. Put em' on a two stroke, and weep. It is that sad.
Don't feed into the B.S.
EFI will only cost more in the long run, and it doesn't make more power. Four strokes are killing the sport, and in five years, I will no longer have a local track. Hell, it's for sale as we speak.
My local track is Cycle Ranch, the BEST dirt in Texas, with one of the best layouts for true motocross, PERIOD. Don't beleive me, just ask the Alessi's, Heath Voss, Pastrana, the Hahn family, Sean Hackley, and many, many more. Dirt Rider calls it the hidden treasure in the south.
And yet, the track is going under from lack of turn out.
I'm not blatantly saying buy a two stroke, but think twice before you get that four stroke.
However, I thought this post was interesting. Some will like it, some will hate it. Please note that the guy's blog is titled "Eternal Two Stroke", so you can imagine where he's coming from. Cool blog, regardless.
His blog is at:
http://www.eternaltwostroke.com/
The post I'm talking about is at:
http://www.eternaltwostroke.com/2008/04/arm-and-leg.html
And here's the text - although I'd encourage everybody to check out his blog on MX.
----------------------------------
BEGIN POST
Mark these words.
The cost of racing will drive out the people that make our sport so good.
Just look at nascar. How in the heck would you ever go pro in that? Buy your own car like Ricky's? No. Try dirt track? No. Car racing has almost become reserved for the rich of wallet, not the most talented. Hell, I would LOVE to race cars, or shifter carts, or some sort of 4 wheeled vehicle, but I just plain can't afford to.
Here is the motocross story, before it goes extinct.
First came the four strokes.
Yeay for more usable power!
Yeayfor no more fouled plugs!
Yeay for no more premix!
Yeay for no more religious top end rebuilds!
But should we say:
Yeay for 2000 dollar engine rebuilds?
Yeay for heavier bikes?
Yeay for 5000 dollar mod bikes?
Yeay for increased part wear (tires, chains, sprockets)?
Yeay for more expensive purchase prices?
Yeay for the "neutral only start" routine?
Yeay for the death of the used bike market?
With the introduction of the four stroke in to main stream racing, you bought a lot more for each bike.
Valves (originally titanium)
Cams
Cool pistons
Oil pumps
Titanium exhausts
Carburetors with fuel squirter's (accelerator pump).
The four stroke is a technical marvel, but think for a second. Which bike requires more of a tuning knowledge? I feel the two stroke is magnanimously cooler when you look at the actual science behind the tuning.
Four strokes: more air in, higher revs, more power out.
The two stroke is a constant balance between power and ride ability.
Four strokes were great when Yamaha released them. The required almost ZERO maintenance, and were easy to go fast on for everyone. People no longer had to ride on the pipe, and the gap between beginner to novice to intermediate closed substantially.
But then came the problems (although I would like to say leave Yamaha out of it). When bikes blew up, they BLEW UP! (Ready, Inhale!) Now, a new crank was needed when the piston abruptly stopped moving from the valves sticking open because a 5 dollar valve keeper got loose requiring a new cylinder combined with a new head because the valve destroyed it (Phew! exhale!). Oil starvation required new cams and heads, sometimes a piston, and don't count out a crank after you fix the aforementioned problems because the effects of oil starvation weren't present during the rebuild. After a new reciprocating assembly, your transmission goes out, because the root of your oil starvation problems are a 3 dollar crank seal.
Then the used bike dilemma surfaced. With a particular brand of bikes experiencing valve recession, when you bought a bike, it was only a matter of time.
TICK, TOCK,
TICK, TOCK
BOOOM! There goes your brand "new" used bike.
People, realizing the problem, did a couple things. First, many completely serviced their "new" used bike, checking and often replacing every part necessary. Second, others bought new bikes only. Many raced a year, traded in, and raced another year, dumping off their used steed to some poor soul.
Of course, dealers were happy, they were selling an abundance of high mark up parts, and it wasn't their fault the bikes were breaking! They also got more shop business because the public were duped into thinking the four stroke is hard to work on.
Manufacturers were happy, they were selling more new bikes than ever, and they were selling more parts than ever, in part because mags were all raving the how great four strokes were, and in part because the pros were slowly coming round to the four stroke.
The aftermarket was happy. Exhausts now cost upwards of a grand, motor mods over a grand, pistons two hundred, weird trinkets and triple clamps surfaced to make the four stroke handle better like the two stroke. With valve failures, the aftermarket could now offer "upgraded" parts to make the bike last longer.
So yeay. Yeay for a thriving bike economy, yeay for cool technology, and yeay for faster riders.
But not really. With EFI on the horizon, jetting is no longer know how and a 2 dollar jet or a free change of the needle position. Now a computer tuner is needed when you add an aftermarket exhaust or air filter, and even more sad is that the stock jetting can be wrong.
A computer science degree is needed to work the systems. Don't beleive me? Just read about how horrible the Suzuki is stock, and how much worse the problem is with a pipe. The tuners are easily 500 bucks.
And the used bikes are REALLY in trouble. Now you may need a new injector, fuel pump or will think you do when a wire goes astray.
All for what? Did EFI really make the Suzuki better? No, it did horribly in the reviews. Did four strokes make the sport better? No, I see less and less riders every year at my local track, and it used to be packed, every practice. Now the track can barely stay afloat, and race turnouts are barely making three to a class. Are riders truly faster? The clock may say so, but their skill would belay the numbers. Put em' on a two stroke, and weep. It is that sad.
Don't feed into the B.S.
EFI will only cost more in the long run, and it doesn't make more power. Four strokes are killing the sport, and in five years, I will no longer have a local track. Hell, it's for sale as we speak.
My local track is Cycle Ranch, the BEST dirt in Texas, with one of the best layouts for true motocross, PERIOD. Don't beleive me, just ask the Alessi's, Heath Voss, Pastrana, the Hahn family, Sean Hackley, and many, many more. Dirt Rider calls it the hidden treasure in the south.
And yet, the track is going under from lack of turn out.
I'm not blatantly saying buy a two stroke, but think twice before you get that four stroke.
