Anybody also into trials?
- Thread starter JTT
- Start date
High Lord Gomer
Poked with Sticks
- Sep 26, 1999
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I made a short venture into that dangerous land, but I found the fashion ensemble necessary rather prohibitive. :scream:
Seriously, PantyMan recently attended a trials class. I think he can even start his now.
Seriously, PantyMan recently attended a trials class. I think he can even start his now.
I'm think of making an adventure into the trials world (wait...I have no money). It really sounds fun. It think we'd all like to hear a little about it. 12 hp. 250 two-strokes that weigh 80 lbs. Is the general deal that they make them as light as physically possible, and they make no power over 2000 rpms? How do they set up the suspension on those? How about the brakes? Are they air cooled? Tell us more, our ears are open.
Yes it is fun on a 12hp 250cc two stroke. Its amazing how much trouble you can get into with 12hp!!
They are built to have a really low centre of gravity, and this helps with balance. The frames are also relatively strong, as you can see from World Championship trials, the better riders tend to hit things pretty hard. Personally I just tend to hit the ground pretty hard, and it is a good thing to remember that although you are going slow, if you do fall you will hit the ground just as hard as if you were going fast!!
It is a good fun sport, with the emphasis on learning new skills, and developing new ones. It is also relatively low impact, with injuries for the most part being minor bruising rather than bone breakages. People for instance don't seem to injure knees as much as with other off road motorcycling - because the aim is to not put your feet down.
You can also trail ride trials bikes, with the fuel range and lack of seat being the main problems. Where I live most of the trail riding is in the woods, and fairly tight and twisty, so having a very light bike with a 90 degree steering lock is an advantage. The standing position is usually very comfortable because the foot pegs are set right to the rear of the frame, but the bikes are weird feeling to start with, but it doesn't take long to adjust to.
I guess the best thing is to go along to a club in your area, and see if you can try out some bikes. Most trials riders are generally pretty friendly, and the club events are pretty laid back, so just go along and have a look.
They are built to have a really low centre of gravity, and this helps with balance. The frames are also relatively strong, as you can see from World Championship trials, the better riders tend to hit things pretty hard. Personally I just tend to hit the ground pretty hard, and it is a good thing to remember that although you are going slow, if you do fall you will hit the ground just as hard as if you were going fast!!
It is a good fun sport, with the emphasis on learning new skills, and developing new ones. It is also relatively low impact, with injuries for the most part being minor bruising rather than bone breakages. People for instance don't seem to injure knees as much as with other off road motorcycling - because the aim is to not put your feet down.
You can also trail ride trials bikes, with the fuel range and lack of seat being the main problems. Where I live most of the trail riding is in the woods, and fairly tight and twisty, so having a very light bike with a 90 degree steering lock is an advantage. The standing position is usually very comfortable because the foot pegs are set right to the rear of the frame, but the bikes are weird feeling to start with, but it doesn't take long to adjust to.
I guess the best thing is to go along to a club in your area, and see if you can try out some bikes. Most trials riders are generally pretty friendly, and the club events are pretty laid back, so just go along and have a look.
- Thread starter
- #5
I first rode one back in the 80's (an old Yamaha TY), and not again until this spring. I have wanted one for awhile, so I just bought one (2000 Sherco). Wayneg is right, they do feel a little odd at first, but not hard to get used to. I liken them more to motorized mountainbikes than "normal" dirtbikes. Tiny and very light...and yes, it does hurt to fall off, as I found out (typing this with a broken finger) :mad: . They are great fun though, and will likely be even better once I figure out how to ride the beast.
YZeater, modern ones are liquid cooled, reed valved and quite high tech really. Very light weight (like 157lbs). Suspension is very fast (rebound and compression). Brakes are 2 or 4 piston, but with tiny rotors...doesn't take much to stop. Hydraulic clutch....awe...so, so nice. All controls are very light to touch. Tires are the stickiest things will will likely ever see!!!
YZeater, modern ones are liquid cooled, reed valved and quite high tech really. Very light weight (like 157lbs). Suspension is very fast (rebound and compression). Brakes are 2 or 4 piston, but with tiny rotors...doesn't take much to stop. Hydraulic clutch....awe...so, so nice. All controls are very light to touch. Tires are the stickiest things will will likely ever see!!!
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,765
- 1
Trials = addictivly cool!
It's like learning to ride all over again. Remember when you first rode a dirt bike? How exciting, scary, thrilling... it was. Well trials is like that and then some. If you think you can ride off road / MX and trials is going to be a piece of cake I strongly encourage you to give it a shot, without an audiance. Unless you have somebody tell you how to ride the thing you WILL end up on the ground. These are the most responsive & trickest bikes on the planet. I still get distracted in the garage by my Montesa and end up just looking at it and marveling at it's form and the function of each little piece. If you can unlearn good off road habits that are BAD trials habits I think it will make you a better rider on both fronts. Example: You stand on a trials bike and this is also good form on a dirt bike right? Well while your standing on that MX bike what do you do? Clamp it between your legs right? On a trials bike that's all wrong. You need to keep your legs spread and let the bike lean under your vertical upper body. The list goes on and on. In the end learning to ride slow, I mean REALLY slow is harder than riding fast but the payout is a huge amount of fun, and to me that's what it's all about.
It's like learning to ride all over again. Remember when you first rode a dirt bike? How exciting, scary, thrilling... it was. Well trials is like that and then some. If you think you can ride off road / MX and trials is going to be a piece of cake I strongly encourage you to give it a shot, without an audiance. Unless you have somebody tell you how to ride the thing you WILL end up on the ground. These are the most responsive & trickest bikes on the planet. I still get distracted in the garage by my Montesa and end up just looking at it and marveling at it's form and the function of each little piece. If you can unlearn good off road habits that are BAD trials habits I think it will make you a better rider on both fronts. Example: You stand on a trials bike and this is also good form on a dirt bike right? Well while your standing on that MX bike what do you do? Clamp it between your legs right? On a trials bike that's all wrong. You need to keep your legs spread and let the bike lean under your vertical upper body. The list goes on and on. In the end learning to ride slow, I mean REALLY slow is harder than riding fast but the payout is a huge amount of fun, and to me that's what it's all about.
Treestomper
Member
- Sep 16, 2001
- 81
- 0
Hey Pat like the new icon. I think that bike looks a little small.
I'd love to get into trials but can't bring myself to shell out the money for a new bike. Now if I could find a good used 2-3 year old Montesa or Gas Gas things would be different. The area right around my house would be great for a trials bike, my KTM tends to out power the area a bit. My dad still has his old Yamaha TY 250. I think its a 1976? Someday I'll have a trials bike, someday...
- Thread starter
- #9
LOL...Patman, I still catch myself squeezing with my knees. The reminder is that there is nothing there to squeeze :eek:
I rode my CR after a couple of weeks on the trials bike and found it to feel like I was riding a Gold Wing, but did notice a definite improvement in my riding...and that was only after a couple of weeks!
Pat is very right about the first time you ride them. Ride it like a "dirtbike" and you will find yourself on your behind in short order. The precision amazes me. The bikes respond to the very slightest of inputs. Just moving your foot on the peg, to reach the brake, will initial a turn.
I rode my CR after a couple of weeks on the trials bike and found it to feel like I was riding a Gold Wing, but did notice a definite improvement in my riding...and that was only after a couple of weeks!
Pat is very right about the first time you ride them. Ride it like a "dirtbike" and you will find yourself on your behind in short order. The precision amazes me. The bikes respond to the very slightest of inputs. Just moving your foot on the peg, to reach the brake, will initial a turn.
Trials is a very addicting sport. I signed us both up for a class before we even had the Monty's, so we took it on our enduro bikes. We learned so much and had so much fun, that 2 weeks later, we both had new (used) Monty's. The hardest thing for both of us was "gripping the tank". Patman is right, you want your legs spread apart. Another hard thing to get used to was the very touchy brakes. Now that I am comfortable with that, I want the same brakes on my enduro bikes!
The thing with trials is, you need to have a good circuit to compete in. I have way more fun in the ribbons, than I do just freeriding or practicing. You can find used bikes for a pretty reasonable price and have it shipped to you. That is what my hubby did. He bought his back east and it was shipped thru forward air. Turned out to be a beautiful bike, just what the guy had told us. The great thing about these bikes is you put premix in them and ride. There aren't a lot of mods or suspension stuff to deal with. Most people ride them bone stock. Even the pros.
Brenda
The thing with trials is, you need to have a good circuit to compete in. I have way more fun in the ribbons, than I do just freeriding or practicing. You can find used bikes for a pretty reasonable price and have it shipped to you. That is what my hubby did. He bought his back east and it was shipped thru forward air. Turned out to be a beautiful bike, just what the guy had told us. The great thing about these bikes is you put premix in them and ride. There aren't a lot of mods or suspension stuff to deal with. Most people ride them bone stock. Even the pros.
Brenda
One thing that we were taught on a training course was to practice balancing in the garage at night, with the engine off and the handle bars turned full lock. I found that after a week or so I could balance for over a minute, and after a few weeks I could balance with the handle bars straight ahead. This really helped with very slow turns, and also helped with confidence as well. It also helps with wheelies, as it seems that if you have good side to side balance then you automatically have good front to back balance.
I was able to witness the "World Trials" in Goldendale, Wa last year. I assisted an observer on a course. I must say, this is the most impressive motorcycle event I have ever been to. The European/Japan riders are amazing:cool You could not walk up some of the rocks they were climbing!!
If anyone wants to learn about trials, go to a trials event, you will be glad you did.
If anyone wants to learn about trials, go to a trials event, you will be glad you did.
I ride trials as well. I ride a GG 280 and will hopefully be getting one of the new "Pro" model GG soon. It is such a fun sport. Right now finding a used GG that is 2-3 years old is easy and affordable because last year GG put all their regular models on sale for $1,000.00 less than normal so that when the new Pro model came out this year it would price at the normal price. This was great for GG fans but made the Montesa folks mad cuz they could not sell their used bikes for as much cuz you could buy a new GG for the price they wanted for their used bike:D
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,765
- 1
Exactly! Most of the high level riders just want their bike as close to stock a possible, meaning everything works and any customization is bar position, lever position, gearing and tire pressure. No pipes, engine mods or suspension tweaks needed.
Made me pretty happy, got my bike for a song. :)
So far the most difficult partfor me is the throttle control. Man talk about a hair trigger!:eek:
I just got a new bike (for me anyway) on sunday, which is a 200cc Beta Rev3, and being a clubman rider, it sure is nice not to have too much power. I don't have wonderful throttle control either, and I am really enjoying have a nice easy bike to ride as my previous bike was a '94 Techno with very peaky and unpredictable power!:uh:
The Montesa's have a lot of power, but I felt after testing one breifly that with the standard gearing they would be too much for me. I guess my old Beta pretty much hammered the 'too much power can be a bad thing' lesson into me!
You may want to look at changing the timing slightly or lowering the compression with another base gasket under the cylinder on your monty to smooth the power out, and there is some very helpful information on the Trials Australia web site. These are very easy things to change back again when you feel that you are ready for more power.(http://www.trials.com.au/techtips/techtips.shtml)
Another thing that we were taught at a training course, for improving throttle control is to practise by riding up a steep hill with lots of bumps using only first gear. In NZ we have a lot of small ridges and steps in most of the grassy hills (must be the sheep or something!), so these sort of hills are pretty easy to find over here. This is surprisingly hard to do, and sometimes hills that can very easily be climbed in third or second gear can be a real challenge in first. You either loop out or stall very easily in first, but it can be a useful thing to practise.
Very slow first gear wheelies are also something that helps to teach throttle control. Remebering to try and keep a constant slow speed, and see how long you can keep the wheelie going for.
The Montesa's have a lot of power, but I felt after testing one breifly that with the standard gearing they would be too much for me. I guess my old Beta pretty much hammered the 'too much power can be a bad thing' lesson into me!
You may want to look at changing the timing slightly or lowering the compression with another base gasket under the cylinder on your monty to smooth the power out, and there is some very helpful information on the Trials Australia web site. These are very easy things to change back again when you feel that you are ready for more power.(http://www.trials.com.au/techtips/techtips.shtml)
Another thing that we were taught at a training course, for improving throttle control is to practise by riding up a steep hill with lots of bumps using only first gear. In NZ we have a lot of small ridges and steps in most of the grassy hills (must be the sheep or something!), so these sort of hills are pretty easy to find over here. This is surprisingly hard to do, and sometimes hills that can very easily be climbed in third or second gear can be a real challenge in first. You either loop out or stall very easily in first, but it can be a useful thing to practise.
Very slow first gear wheelies are also something that helps to teach throttle control. Remebering to try and keep a constant slow speed, and see how long you can keep the wheelie going for.
- Thread starter
- #16
Wayneg, thanks for the link! Nice site. I am always looking for good new trials sites to learn more about the sport, bikes, and technique. Also thanks for the 1st gear tip! I'll give it a try. I have been struggling with wheelies. Pats right, the things are pretty sensitive to inputs, and mine is upposed to be a "mellow" motor.:eek:
Theres quite a few trials sites out there, probably the best are http://www.trials.co.uk and http://www.todotrials.com (you have to use a translator unles you can speak spanish!)
There are 'links' pages on these sites with all sorts of sites around the place.
The Trials Australia tech tips pages are a copy of the ones on trials.co.uk, but far easier to navigate.
There are 'links' pages on these sites with all sorts of sites around the place.
The Trials Australia tech tips pages are a copy of the ones on trials.co.uk, but far easier to navigate.
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,765
- 1
I'm pretty sure my throttle control issues on the Montesa come from two places. First my 360 just spins the tire when I'm sloppy where the Montesa could find traction on a steel wall coated with snot. Second I just regeared it from a 11/40 to a 11/42 :eek:. I think a second base gasket might be in order if I don't figure it out soon. Your right the Montesa's are beasts, go figure they have "HRC" on the side covers :confused:
I guess thats why I'm so happy with the 200!! Your Monty has weird (very high) gearing compared to the Beta and GasGas, with first gear being pretty high. I think that this doesn't help much, so you could also try riding each section in as low a gear as possible, and don't be scared to use first gear. For instance with rocky creek sections, I found that first gear was better for me than second gear on my Techno. Because of my lack of throttle control, the bike seemed like it was always trying to get away from me whenever I had to go up a step or something.
The black Domino throttle tube doesn't make that much difference to me for the situations where I am having problems with throttle control. When I'm just cruising through a section, having a go at simple sections, or where I'm just using a light throttle its all happiness. Its where I've got to hit someting pretty hard, and knowing the difference between making it to the top, and looping out that I'm having trouble (in the past I have broken the odd rear mudguard ;) ). I guess that having the 200 will help, mainly because it has much less power and smoother power as well. I guess its just something that I'll learn eventually through practising, and a skill that will happen at some stage.
One of the main reasons that I got the 200 was that it has been recommended to me by various people, that having lots of power doesn't help you to learn the correcct techniques. In the UK the youth classes are restricted to certain displacments by their age. This is so that the youngsters do learn the correct techniques rather than just having the grunt to power over obstacles regardless. I think that what I relly need to do is to try and practise the correct techniques rather than just turn up to a trial and just ride! Training is certainly something that helps, so maybe just getting other better riders to watch and (once they've finished laughing:) ) tell me what I'm doing wrong.
One of the main reasons that I got the 200 was that it has been recommended to me by various people, that having lots of power doesn't help you to learn the correcct techniques. In the UK the youth classes are restricted to certain displacments by their age. This is so that the youngsters do learn the correct techniques rather than just having the grunt to power over obstacles regardless. I think that what I relly need to do is to try and practise the correct techniques rather than just turn up to a trial and just ride! Training is certainly something that helps, so maybe just getting other better riders to watch and (once they've finished laughing:) ) tell me what I'm doing wrong.