Anybody use Kenda

[jackdrinker]

Anyone use a Kenda Millville or Southwick tires in the Michigan trails? I can get a great deal on either and although the Trakmasters worked ok, I'm looking for something else..
Thanks!
Jonathan

 

[Wolf Child]

lots of guys like the millville. I personally thought it sucked. I just got a Carlsbad for riding on drummond and it was a sweet tire. I havent tried it in the lower yet.

 

[KTM Mike]

I know that CR250@winters has the Southwicks on his 250EXC. He says he likes them so far, and they seem to be holding up OK as well. I sure hope so, as just a couple days ago I ordered 3 sets of them! It sucks when your bike, and both of your kid's bikes need tires, chain and sprockets ALL at the same time. Being the tightwad I am, I wanted to try something a bit less expensive. We will soon see.

 

[YZMAN400]

Ive used the trackmaster on my CRF250X. The back seems pretty good. I am not all that fond of the front. They do seem to last pretty long though.

 

[jackdrinker]

I've gone through a few sets of 773's on my 125 & 250...
I was found of them except for the wear and cost... I can get Kenda's cheap through Magic Racing in Shelby..

 

[woodsracer369]

I just changed from 773's to Southwicks. The front tire is very good for the sandy MI terrain. The verdict is still out on the rear tire. I put Ultra heavy duty tubes in at the same time and totaly screwed up my susp settings with the added unsprung weight. Once I get the bike balanced again I expect that the tires will work well.

 

[KTM Mike]

Trevor - glad to hear they are working for you. Let us know how the rear does. I just could not pass up saving $40 or more per set of tires. Hopefully this weekend I will be spooning on all 3 pair and will have an initial impression before to long.

I never would have thought that simply the weight of heavy duty tubes would have that big of impact on suspension set up! Maybe I am just to dumb and slow to realize when it is messed up!

Mike

 

[woodsracer369]

I never would have thought that simply the weight of heavy duty tubes would have that big of impact on suspension set up!

I never would have thought that either! I will weigh the actual stock tubes and Ultra Heavy Duty ones and report the results. After some thought and lots of frustration the idea of adding that much weight to the wheel would have to make an impact. I will verify my hypothesis next weekend. Of course all of this needless trial and error, root cause anlysis, and unfavorable results would not have been necessary if I had a smarter mechanic!!!!

 

[crazytrails]

hey all, i have the kenda millvilles on my yz.. i love the tread pattern especially on the rear.. the front could use some taller knobs, but because of the short knobs and somewhat close pattern on the front they go great over down trees and roots... The rear has a great grippy feel, but recently my side knobs are peeling badly and the second row in are starting to crack at the bottom.. My old man seems to think its my corner speed, that maybe they aren't going to hold up so well for that..i really like to lay the bike over hard and carve around the corners.. i still have not recieved an answer from Kenda on the tearing knobs..

 

[Wolverine423]

I never would have thought that either! I will weigh the actual stock tubes and Ultra Heavy Duty ones and report the results. After some thought and lots of frustration the idea of adding that much weight to the wheel would have to make an impact. I will verify my hypothesis next weekend. Of course all of this needless trial and error, root cause anlysis, and unfavorable results would not have been necessary if I had a smarter mechanic!!!!

Heavy duty tubes have nothing to do with bike balance or sag rates what so ever. Now if you were to tape the tubes to the fenders - seat - tank - handlebars or yourself well then thats another story because your suspension will have to hold the weight up. The only thing that you might notice while using HD tubes for offroad riding will be in the front tire while cornering because of more rotating mass, and thats only if your the kind of rider that has corner speed like RC & Blubba.

DW

 

[tall1]

My KTM 200 had Kenda Southwicks on it when I bought it. I changed the front to a Michelin S-12. I prefer the S-12 on the front, seems to steer a little better in sand. The Southwick on the rear seems ok.

 

[bigpower]

I run the Millvilles on my CR500. Love the 120 on the rear, but I wish that I'd have put a Chen Shin 3.25 on the front. The Millville front just doesn't like the soft stuff. That rear will last a good long time, though, 'specially with the gravel cannon I'm riding. I can get about 3/4 of a season out of it.

 

[woodsracer369]

Heavy duty tubes have nothing to do with bike balance or sag rates what so ever. Now if you were to tape the tubes to the fenders - seat - tank - handlebars or yourself well then thats another story because your suspension will have to hold the weight up. The only thing that you might notice while using HD tubes for offroad riding will be in the front tire while cornering because of more rotating mass, and thats only if your the kind of rider that has corner speed like RC & Blubba.

DW

DW

I have to disagree. While it is true the weight will not have any effect on sag it has a definte impact on what I consider the balance of the bike (stability, suspension action front to rear); and you don't have to be ultra fast to notice the difference. I went from 773's with stock tubes - the bike was dead solid, held its line, turned with precision, no head shake, no bottoming etc. I put on new tires (Southwicks) with ultra heavy duty tubes and did not change anything else(clikers, sag, fork height, etc); the bike would not steer - it pushed and would tuck and dive in corners, picked up terrible head shake; the front end felt dead. On the rear it would bottom on the same obstacles that would not use anywhere near the same amount of travel with the previous combo. I was able to tune about 2/3 of the issues out with changing fork height, sag height, cliker settings. I really don't care if you believe me or not but if you would like to try it for yourself - I'll give you the tubes ;)

Trevor

 

[CR250R@WINTERS]

Yeah, I have the Kenda Millvilles on my bike and for the most part have been happy with them. They seem to be holding up well and have good overall traction on Michigan terrain. The only time I have noticed them to get a little slippery is in the wet loamy stuff(mud). The don't seem to shed the mud very well. See what happens with them next weekend. Sounds like the Kendas will be putting on a showing in Kalkaska. See you all there.

 

[KTM Mike]

Trevor/DW - it is the impact of unsprung weight that makes a difference. As I recall, they say it is a 7 to 1 ratio - ie 1 pound change in unsprung weight (ie tire, rim...anything "below" the suspension) is like 7 pound change in sprung weight. This has been a huge issue in high performance street bikes - impacts quickness of cornering transitions etc. And, isnt part of the rational behind 19" rears is they are lighter than a 18", reducing unsprung weight. It makes total sense to me that there is some impact. Another possibility though could be a tire that is way out of balance? Or, could your axle alignment be off? But, I believe ya! :cool:

CR - I thought you had the Southwicks, not the Millvilles? Southwicks are the soft terrian, Milvilles intermediate...is that right? I hope i did not get the wrong ones! My Southwicks arrive today. Hope to get at least one of the 3 bikes set up with them tonight, before we ride tomorrow. (hmmm maybe that should be MY bike...not the kids?). Will have an initial impression end of tomorrow.

 

[jackdrinker]

Lets keep this thread going... When everyone gets feedback together post up..
I'm torn between
southwicks
millville's
S-12's
773's

 

[Asrith]

Here is a before and after picture of my tires, they where terrible, I love the s-12s, pricey but great tires indeed, changed the whole bike for me.

 

[Wolverine423]

DW

I have to disagree. While it is true the weight will not have any effect on sag it has a definte impact on what I consider the balance of the bike (stability, suspension action front to rear); and you don't have to be ultra fast to notice the difference. I went from 773's with stock tubes - the bike was dead solid, held its line, turned with precision, no head shake, no bottoming etc. I put on new tires (Southwicks) with ultra heavy duty tubes and did not change anything else(clikers, sag, fork height, etc); the bike would not steer - it pushed and would tuck and dive in corners, picked up terrible head shake; the front end felt dead. On the rear it would bottom on the same obstacles that would not use anywhere near the same amount of travel with the previous combo. I was able to tune about 2/3 of the issues out with changing fork height, sag height, cliker settings. I really don't care if you believe me or not but if you would like to try it for yourself - I'll give you the tubes ;)

Trevor

Was the Southwick front tire a smaller sidewall profile than the 773 front? What about the 2 rears - 1 worn the other new? That will change ride height. To bad you didn't compare the HD tubes with the same worn out 773 tires. I've used HD tubes no need to bring yours over. DW

 

[Smit-Dog]

Off-topic on Kenda tires... sorry

Hey Trevor - It may not be the HD tubes that caused the sudden unbalance. Weigh the stock tubes and the HD tubes. The HD tubes may weigh more, but relatively speaking, I wouldn't think it'd be enough to feel or make any difference.

I think there's potential for a larger weight difference in tires, or the possibility that either of the new tires could have a manufacturing defect where the rubber is not evenly distributed - thinner or thicker in one spot. Or maybe a tire iron got left in. That'd cause some unbalance.

Axle alignment is something to double-check too. Was the front axle seated (pumping the forks) prior to tightening everything up?

I don't doubt that something changed when new tires/tubes were swapped in.... but I think the tubes are the least likely cause. FWIW, I switched to HD tubes (same tires) and didn't notice a difference.

 

[KTM Mike]

Asrith - those tires look rather worn out - no wonder you did not like them! That front does not look like a soft terrian tire at all, must not be a Southwick? and that used rear actually looks like a S-12 - what was it? I agree the S-12s are a great tire - and if it were not for the $ issue, or if i were only maintaining one bike, I would likely stick with the S-12's myself. I just had to try these out to see. (hopefully next time around all 3 bikes wont need tires at the same time!)

Our Southwicks arrived yesterday. I weighed them and compare to the tires I was taking off. The 110/90/19 Southwick rear came in 3 to 4 pounds heavier than a 130/70/19 S-12. ( I have to give a weight range as I was only using a bathroom scale - inspite of it being a digital, i was getting some 1 pound swings weighing it one time vs the next) That is a very significant weight difference! As to profile - the Southwicks were only available in a 90 series - and it is notably taller than the S-12. I woudl say it was about 5/8" taller in overall total diameter. This 19" went on my son's 200 MXC - in looking at it installed, I wish I had gone with the 100/90. From what reading I had done, the Michilin 130 was about the same as everyone elses 110 - so that is what I ordered. But this Kenda appears like the rim width is not quite wide enough for the 110. This does not seem to be the case in looking at a Kenda on my 250. (perhaps the rim width is different 250 vs 200...dunno)

On the front tire - the Kenda came in 1.5 to 2.5 lbs heavier than a Bridgestone that was on the MXC (forget what size and model it was). Again, a significant difference! And it was notably taller in overall diameter (1/2 inch ish)

I then installed the rear on my 250. The weight gap on the 18" tires was about the same. I also measured actual maximum width. The Kenda 110/80/18 vs S-12 130/100/18 - the Kenda was about 4 mm narrower. Height was 1/2 to 5/8 taller.

This morning the front goes on my bike and my other kid's KDX gets new shoes - then its off for a ride.

 

[KTM Mike]

Did about 50 miles on the Southwicks. Like them so far!

I got all the tires on all the bikes, well, almost all - ran out of time before I got the new front on my son's KDX, so he had to ride with the new Southwick rear, and a worn S-12 front.

Did about 10 miles on my grass track and woods loop. Grass track, is well...a grass track. Woods loop is some near virgin type generally tight woods. Then headed north on the MCCT to ride the Atlanta B loop. this involved a total of about 10 miles of a back road (round trip), then typical Michigan trails after that. The trails ranged from the sandy "black sand": type stuff with a firmer base, to some fairly nice loamy type stuff, a wee bit of rocks and roots, and of course some relatively deep sand and whoops.

I am really liking the Kendas! I really cant say I felt there were any serious trouble areas with them. On firm surfaces, they are a bit squirmy, but not bad. Early on in the ride, things felt different, particularly with cornering. I think that is due to tire profile, and height. I soon adjusted though. On the grass track, the rear hooked up great - and you could very predictably slide the back into a corner. Front hooked up well. Had one or two times the front seemed to loose grip a bit, but I dont think that was a tire specific thing - just something that happens on occasion. The woods loop - sweet! Worked excellent. Then up the MCCT - road section first - a bit squirmy not bad. Then onto trail - as I grew more accustomed to the feel of the tire, I found they worked well! Deep sand- they seemed to stay on top well. Whoops and sand...no trouble. Deep woods black dirt - really hooked up quite well.

During the ride I did do some suspension fiddling though. Keep in mind, I have been doing some tweeking previously, as I installed heavier springs . Prior to this I had not felt happy with the suspenion set up after the new springs. I dialed in 3 clicks more rebound dampening - found the magic spot! Prior, I was actually considering if i should go back to my stock spring.s Little did I know i was only 3 clicks away from it working soooo good! I really dont think the tires had any real impact here. I do know the added rebound dampening, got the back end settled down and hooking up even better.

So, based on this initial ride - the Southwicks are a keeper. I do need to point out, I am comparing these to what is most fresh in my mind - a rather worn out set of s-12s (I mean well worn...like had 1900 miles on them!). But, I certainly did not feel "these tires suck" - in fact I was rather impressed!

My son on the MXC seemed to feel they worked well for the 200 - way better than what he had before (again - well worn!). My other boy on the KDX, his only comment was that it seemed his front felt worse with the new rear. Sorta makes sense that would be the case. I have not rode either the MXC or KDX with them yet, but will report what I think when I do.

 

[Asrith]

KTM Mike, yes the front is a dunlop I think, maybe even stocker and the rear was an s-12. Both terrible worn,
I finally got around to getting tires on the bike, and proved how important tires are on about anything. Glad to hear about the southwicks, good to keep in mind.
When I put these tires on and then went to leota and st. helen, and rode there i felt like I had a different bike. Next is dialing in the suspension on the 360, but it is not to bad where it is at now, which really suprised me, that was my first real hard ride on the ktm 2 weeks ago and is way better than I thought it would be. I keeping dreaming
mx tech or enduro eng set up soon in July, just to help a little.