Big thumpers in the woods?

[Bob Brooks]

Hey guys...I have a question out there for the folks riding the new motocross-style thumpers in the woods, specifically the YZ450F guys. I'm currently riding a KTM 300 and will probably get a new or newer machine at the end of this season or early next year, if all goes well. I'm considering going back to a four-stroke because I do love them. I've been riding the KTM for three seasons now, and it's a good motorcycle, but I want something different next time around. I ride mostly woods and do some hare scrambles and GNCC racing, and I also like to practice some MX and run an occasional MX race, although 90-percent of my riding is in the trees.

For those of you running the new Yamaha 450s, how are they working in the trees? Before I bought the KTM two-stroke, I had a '99 YZ400F and I loved that motorcycle on a motocross track but didn't care for it that much in the woods. It worked okay in the faster terrain, but stalled too easily in the really tight stuff. It also felt a bit heavy to me and that bike tired me out badly in two-hour off-road races. I'm just curious about the 450F Yamaha and considering all my options. For those of you running them, are you putting flywheel weights on them? Is the four-speed gearbox limiting for you for off-road use? I suspect that for serious woods riding that a flywheel weight is mandatory on that machine, along with probably two additional teeth on the rear sprocket?

Incidentally, I have ridden an '03 CRF450 and I was impressed with that motorcycle and think it would work well in the woods in stock form. For my next purchase, I'm kicking around the CRF, YZ450F and the YZ250 two-stroke. I've ridden an '03 YZ250 as well and loved that bike, probably as much as the CRF. The only one I haven't tried yet is the Yamaha 450F and that's why I'm asking for opinions on it for cross-country style riding.

Also, I'm not particularly interested in the WR version. I don't want the extra weight and I'm comfortable starting four-strokes, so I don't believe I'll need the electric start. Plus, I want my next bike to be able to handle motocross in addition to off-road duties. That's one of my complaints with the KTM two-stroke is that it doesn't work well in a motocross environment.

Thanks for any opinions. My purchase may be six months or more away, but I'm researching now.

 

[beer_stud_76]

bob brooks -

a few things:

1) no 450 is a "big thumper"

2) IMO, the 4 speed tranny is a serious limiting factor. 1st is just too high

3) if you didn't like the '99 YZF400 in the woods, you'll HATE the yzf450. the lack of flywheel effect you mentioned is still a problem, the high bottom-low top gear box is great on a track, not so much everywhere else.

4) the WR version is quite a lot more choked up from the factory and has slower cam timing and so forth. most people that get the WR eventually do all the YZF mods to it.

5) i've never seen one, but if you were industrious and had your heart set on blue, get a YZF and put a WR tranny in it, and maybe a gas tank with a reserve.

6) be sure you look good and hard at the new 300EXCs before you decide on a YZF.


jeremiah

 

[Bob Brooks]

Thanks Jeremiah...I don't have my heart set on any motorcycle yet, just asking some opinions and investigating. What you said about the YZ450F is what I figured. I loved my 99 YZ400F on a motocross track, or even for fast cross-country style woods riding, but I didn't like it in the tight stuff. I assumed the new 450 would much the same, perhaps worse, but wasn't sure since I haven't ridden one.

As for a new 300 EXC, I haven't ruled out that possibility, but I already have a 300 KTM that I've been riding for the last three years, and I love my motorcycle but I'm ready for something different. There are a lot of things I adore about my 300, but I don't care for the suspension or the steering, and more than anything else, I'm just ready for a change next time. Also, I'm not happy with the way my 300 performs on a motocross track. That's not a huge deal, as most of my riding is in the trees, but I want more versatility on the next machine.

Why wouldn't you call a 450 a "big thumper?" In my mind, there are two basic sizes of four-strokes on the market today...450s and 250s with the 450 being the "bigger" of the two. Sure, Husaberg and KTM make a bigger bike, and there is the XR650 Honda, but basically 450cc is the bigger version. I realize there are bigger machines available and when I raced dirt track, I rode a lot of 600cc Rotax's and XR750 Harley's, so by those comparisons, you're right, the 450s aren't big thumpers. But for modern motocross bikes, they are. Anything bigger than the Honda or Yamaha 450 wouldn't be practical for my application.

 

[Jonny426]

Bob consider these points: the WR's now have the same seat/tank combo as the YZ's. Last years' YZ weighs almost the same as this years' WR.The wide ratio tranny is the only option for the woods due to the four speed YZs' tall 1st.Buy a YZ exhaust cam,jet it,remove the grey wire,replace the throtle stop and uncork the exhaust- you are firmly in YZ territory power wise.The cam and the rest of the easy free mods will take only 2-3 hours, and set you back a whole lot less than a tranny swap. Take off the front light assy.,, put on YZ rear fender and presto! wide ratio YZ!

 

[beer_stud_76]

bob brooks -

1) the thing is, 450s race in the 250 class, and i don't consider a 250 to be a big two stroke. plus that, you said it yourself, there's the bergs, XR600-650s, and huskys, not to mention the excellent KTM520-525s

2) what johnny 426 said is right on the money. a YZed WR is probably the ticket if your set on a 4 stroke. you might even like a YZed WR 250. those bikes are VERY fast in the woods

3) whatever you do, avoid the CRF450 like a fat kid avoids vegtables. they ride nice and have a killer motor, but they're just so fragile - IMO


jeremiah