I know there is the debate of wether to get a Scotts filter or stick with OEM types. My internal debate with the scotts is that I would think the fine mesh would start to get imperfections from handling with comp. air and contact cleaner. I also question weather OEM has the best filtering charicteristics. As you can see, I am in a catch 22. Get the Scotts and sarifice longterm durability or stick with OEM and sacrifice filtering qualities. Ecomics is not a factor in my desision so if you have some good info on the subject, please post. Jeff
Cheapest/best oil filters
- Thread starter Unit74
- Start date
Scotts SS Filters
Jeff,
Stainless is the way to go!
1. You ALWAYS have a new filter available.
2. Stainless Steel (SS) won't break down in our bike's lifetime.
3. The OEM stuff is disposable, expensive, and yet cheaply made.
4. Don't let kids play baseball with your SS filters and they should be fine.
5. My favorite thing about the SS is that it forces me to take a closer look at the particles (when cleaning it) trapped .
6. I've never seen any evidence that stated a huge difference.
7. SS is good enough for me and saves me $ (in the long run).
:D
Jeff,
Stainless is the way to go!
1. You ALWAYS have a new filter available.
2. Stainless Steel (SS) won't break down in our bike's lifetime.
3. The OEM stuff is disposable, expensive, and yet cheaply made.
4. Don't let kids play baseball with your SS filters and they should be fine.
5. My favorite thing about the SS is that it forces me to take a closer look at the particles (when cleaning it) trapped .
6. I've never seen any evidence that stated a huge difference.
7. SS is good enough for me and saves me $ (in the long run).
:D
Well for what it is worth.
On all the bikes I have owned since 93 I change my oil every ride.
On my KTM four strokes I run a good qaulity straight 30wt oil in the summer.
I run a 10w30 in the winter.
I have been getting along without ever needing a clutch replacement and my buddy gwthumper still has the stock clutch in his 98 250sx. He also changes his oil every ride.
I learned this from several Pro racers I have known.
Oil is cheap trans parts are not.
I see allot of guys drain there oil at the track and it comes out black as paint.
I buy K&N oil filters for 7.50 each and change them every 10 oil changes.
There is almost never any flashing in the oil screens.
The filters come out looking almost like new but I chuck them.
I have even taken them apart and closely looked for metal.
I have not had a clutch or trans problem in any bike since 1993 which is about when I started changing the oil this often. If its a really hot day at the races and I run 2or 3 classes I will change it at intermission. When I used to use the high dollar oils and change the oil less frequent I always went through clutches and trans parts.
I went back to the high dollar oils in 96 on my yz 250 and sure enough clutch problems and trans problems that summer. Ive been back to 30wt and changing it every ride since.
:D
On all the bikes I have owned since 93 I change my oil every ride.
On my KTM four strokes I run a good qaulity straight 30wt oil in the summer.
I run a 10w30 in the winter.
I have been getting along without ever needing a clutch replacement and my buddy gwthumper still has the stock clutch in his 98 250sx. He also changes his oil every ride.
I learned this from several Pro racers I have known.
Oil is cheap trans parts are not.
I see allot of guys drain there oil at the track and it comes out black as paint.
I buy K&N oil filters for 7.50 each and change them every 10 oil changes.
There is almost never any flashing in the oil screens.
The filters come out looking almost like new but I chuck them.
I have even taken them apart and closely looked for metal.
I have not had a clutch or trans problem in any bike since 1993 which is about when I started changing the oil this often. If its a really hot day at the races and I run 2or 3 classes I will change it at intermission. When I used to use the high dollar oils and change the oil less frequent I always went through clutches and trans parts.
I went back to the high dollar oils in 96 on my yz 250 and sure enough clutch problems and trans problems that summer. Ive been back to 30wt and changing it every ride since.
:D
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Jeff,
I think the key is regular oil changes regardless of filter type. I personally go with Hi-flow filters. They can be obtained through any dealer with a Tucker Rocky account, most all do. I bought 24 of each type (48 total) for around $200.00. That equates to less than $8.50 per oil change for 24 changes, not bad and you don't have to clean anything. I have 2 friends with 520's that went in on it. I have used these in the past with no oil related failures, likely a product of frequent changes vs. filter IMO. There numbers are HF155 and HF157 for the 400 / 520RFS. I have nothing against stainless as I have used them as well.
Good Luck, Keith
I think the key is regular oil changes regardless of filter type. I personally go with Hi-flow filters. They can be obtained through any dealer with a Tucker Rocky account, most all do. I bought 24 of each type (48 total) for around $200.00. That equates to less than $8.50 per oil change for 24 changes, not bad and you don't have to clean anything. I have 2 friends with 520's that went in on it. I have used these in the past with no oil related failures, likely a product of frequent changes vs. filter IMO. There numbers are HF155 and HF157 for the 400 / 520RFS. I have nothing against stainless as I have used them as well.
Good Luck, Keith
The question that I would like answered is "do the S.S. filters, filter as well as the stock filters? Do the S.S. filters meet or exceed OEM standards? What exactly is the life of a S.S. filter? Even K&N air filters have a life span of 10 years or 1,000,000 miles.
I would guess that the Scotts filters would filter better. They claim that it filters particles as small as 30 microns, that is plenty small for me. Also I doubt that the filter would deteriorate in eight filter changes or less. By the way, once I have reused the filter eight times it has paid for itself.
Sorry guys, thats Hiflo not Hi Flow.
http://www.bikealert.com/hiflofiltro/HFApplicationMan.htm
Not by my math.
Keith
http://www.bikealert.com/hiflofiltro/HFApplicationMan.htm
Not by my math.
Keith
- Dec 26, 1999
- 19,774
- 0
Most engine wear is caused by particles 5 microns and larger and most automotive filters only get about 94% of stuff in the 20 to 30 micron range depending on the design and media. :eek: So what to do? I think a couple of magnets to go with the screens and filters would be nice but any of the non-ferric stuff will still get past the magnets. I guess change the oil and filters often is about the best that can be done. If you REALLY want to know whats going on in your engine and with your oil send it off to a lab for spectrographic analysis, it's not too expensive ($8) and it really lets ya' know where things stand. :)
Spoke to my dealer yesterday. Apparently a BMW club bought 12 or so brands of oil, sent them in for testing and the spectrol and BMW bulk oil ($3/qt) rated the highest in lubrication additives (phosphate and zinc). The synthetics down lower.
His advice given all the controversy on oil. Change my oil every ride with BMW bulk oil, if the clutch/gear box act up it is not due to inferior wear protection but that a different additive might be needed. In this case use the synthetic such as Mobil 1. Apparently this is what Triumpth is claiming to be the best oil.
I have now heard this from three dealers with KTM factory rep connections, use regular petroleum based oils, change frequently. They dont say that the filter needs to be changed every ride.
I think the SS filter would likely be no better in the long run from a function standpoint if you change your oil every ride but from a cost standpoint, if you ride a lot, therefore change oil freqently, the SS filter ($79 each) will eventually pay for themselves.
His advice given all the controversy on oil. Change my oil every ride with BMW bulk oil, if the clutch/gear box act up it is not due to inferior wear protection but that a different additive might be needed. In this case use the synthetic such as Mobil 1. Apparently this is what Triumpth is claiming to be the best oil.
I have now heard this from three dealers with KTM factory rep connections, use regular petroleum based oils, change frequently. They dont say that the filter needs to be changed every ride.
I think the SS filter would likely be no better in the long run from a function standpoint if you change your oil every ride but from a cost standpoint, if you ride a lot, therefore change oil freqently, the SS filter ($79 each) will eventually pay for themselves.
jeb
Member
- Jul 21, 1999
- 633
- 0
Not sure of your math here. I get a pair of paper Hi-Flo filters from Mike Kruger for about $9. I change my filters every 3rd oil change. I see the Scott's SS filters at about $140 a pair on the Scott's website. Since I only change my paper filters every 3rd time, it'd take me a very long time to pay for the Scott's. Plus I don't have to hassle with cleaning and waiting to dry or worry about having the mesh open up from repeated cleanings. Paper just makes sense to me.
K&P Engineering is the maker of the Stainless Steel Reusable Micronic Oil Filters that Scotts sells. TSI performance sells them $20 dollars a pair cheaper.
"Most good paper filters will pass particles in the 90 to 95 micron range, a human hair is about 140 microns. Stainless filter catches items down to 35 microns "absolute", which is about 3 times better than most good paper or brass filters".
"Most good paper filters will pass particles in the 90 to 95 micron range, a human hair is about 140 microns. Stainless filter catches items down to 35 microns "absolute", which is about 3 times better than most good paper or brass filters".
Well guys, my business is oil, filtration, and lubrication methods.
I have yet to see an metal filter go down as fine as a paper or composite type. And keeping the oil clean is inparative for engine life. I will say that buying a KTM or Ferrari and skipping oil changes is foolish. Protection isn't cheap. I do the opposite routine with my machines. I put a good synthetic in (Royal Purple) but you can use any, and change filters why running the oil for months. I would like to see that supposed test that dealer did. It cost big bucks to test oil. I'm not talking oil analysis. Testing takes days and lab time is expensive. That is why you never see a test with all oils. And my guess that BMW (bulk) is nothing more than a "S" grade oil like the rest of the motorcycle market. In my field we have a name for "S" grade, **** grade. If you by a turbo car they recommend a "C" grade. Plus all motorcycle oils are nothing more than car oil bottled in morotcycle bottles. ANd you can take that to the bank. SO what ever brand, just specify a "C" grade. Oh, DON"T use fram filters, they calapse internally in bikes and cars, causing major damage.
Rich
lubricity@hotmail.com
I have yet to see an metal filter go down as fine as a paper or composite type. And keeping the oil clean is inparative for engine life. I will say that buying a KTM or Ferrari and skipping oil changes is foolish. Protection isn't cheap. I do the opposite routine with my machines. I put a good synthetic in (Royal Purple) but you can use any, and change filters why running the oil for months. I would like to see that supposed test that dealer did. It cost big bucks to test oil. I'm not talking oil analysis. Testing takes days and lab time is expensive. That is why you never see a test with all oils. And my guess that BMW (bulk) is nothing more than a "S" grade oil like the rest of the motorcycle market. In my field we have a name for "S" grade, **** grade. If you by a turbo car they recommend a "C" grade. Plus all motorcycle oils are nothing more than car oil bottled in morotcycle bottles. ANd you can take that to the bank. SO what ever brand, just specify a "C" grade. Oh, DON"T use fram filters, they calapse internally in bikes and cars, causing major damage.
Rich
lubricity@hotmail.com
Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me a filter that stops particles
smaller would also be more restrictve as far as flow.
Always running new clean oil would lesson the exposure time to the parts by
those fine particles by keeping them washed out of the motor.
My experiance has been that when ever I use a synthetic oil the clutches
dont last. My local dealer Midwest KTM said when he went to the dealer
meeting the KTM people recommented regular petrolium based oils.
smaller would also be more restrictve as far as flow.
Always running new clean oil would lesson the exposure time to the parts by
those fine particles by keeping them washed out of the motor.
My experiance has been that when ever I use a synthetic oil the clutches
dont last. My local dealer Midwest KTM said when he went to the dealer
meeting the KTM people recommented regular petrolium based oils.
Coach in ND
Member
- Mar 19, 2001
- 212
- 0
That's kinda like saying don't buy a KTM RFS because they have cam bearing problems. One or two isolated cases out of thousands. I've used Fram filters exclusively on my KTM and all my vehicles and never had a problem. We're did you get your info?
I've ran Motorex full sythetic oil since my '01 400 SX was new and didn't have any clutch problems at all. I tend to be kinda hard on the clutch since I came off of 125's before I switched to the RFS. I also raced 3 mud races that were real hard on the clutch last season. Before I traded my bike off I pulled the clutch apart to see how it looked. It looked like brand new!!
I don't understand how a SS filter can catch particles but thet same particles can be washed out of the filter. For me it's just smarter, and cheaper to run paper.
Coach
Sorry, But Fram is noted for failures. In Fact that is the ONLY filter spelled out in OEM manuals of voided warrentees if you use them. I'm not triing to bull **** you guys just letting the facts be known. I blew two motors and they paid for them. And I wasn't buying there cheap k-mart specials. I don't want to get into a pissing contest as to what oil to use. I said use a "C" oil. I don't care which brand you use.
I see failures everyday. SO if I say something it isn't because Joe Blow told me, or I saw it on TV. I've seen it. Motorcycle dealers, mechanics, car mechanics, usually promote what they make the most money on. We've all heard the story, "Cripes, my car has 234,890 miles on it an I only snake oil from Joe. If you have access to a heat gun, shoot some crank case temperatures with different products. You will be SUPPRISED.
Ride safe and Fast
Rich
I see failures everyday. SO if I say something it isn't because Joe Blow told me, or I saw it on TV. I've seen it. Motorcycle dealers, mechanics, car mechanics, usually promote what they make the most money on. We've all heard the story, "Cripes, my car has 234,890 miles on it an I only snake oil from Joe. If you have access to a heat gun, shoot some crank case temperatures with different products. You will be SUPPRISED.
Ride safe and Fast
Rich
mechantloup
Member
- Feb 5, 2001
- 55
- 0
Scotts filters....
I used Scotts SS filter all year long on my 520 ...After my annual inspection all i can say is that everything is fine and works flawlessly.i saved a lot of money using those since i change oil just about every ride ...I also use synthetic motor oil ,motorcycle specific (10w40 Belray EXS )and my clutch is in fine order and always had good feel and performance my bike as logged a little over 320 hours in the last year ... Guess i will continue that way ...:)
Please forgive my bad english...
I used Scotts SS filter all year long on my 520 ...After my annual inspection all i can say is that everything is fine and works flawlessly.i saved a lot of money using those since i change oil just about every ride ...I also use synthetic motor oil ,motorcycle specific (10w40 Belray EXS )and my clutch is in fine order and always had good feel and performance my bike as logged a little over 320 hours in the last year ... Guess i will continue that way ...:)
Please forgive my bad english...