Digressive

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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I was doing a little reading and came across the words digresive concept and digresive dampaning. I look the word up in the dictionary. IT says-to turn aside from the main subject. I tried to put that in terms of suspension and just can't seem to get a grasp on it. Can any body give me some input to what this means or how it effects suspension.


thanks russ
 

DEANSFASTWAY

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May 16, 2002
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Maybe they were sort of using it as a reference as non progressive or oppsite of progressive.
 

svi

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Dec 7, 2000
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A digressive piston has large ports so that it passes large amounts of fluid at high speed, slowing the rate of increase in damping force considerably.
 

John Curea

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Feb 29, 2000
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Russ

Digressive is the oposite of progressive.

A typical shimstack has a curve that is progessive in nature being that the damping force increases the further the shim stack is deflected.

A digressive curve gives a "roll-off" of damping force at high shaft speeds. This means you can run more force at low shaft speeds while trimming off the force at high shaft speed.


Take Care, John
 

James

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Can you explain why one would choose the digressive over the progressive?
 

James

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Good guess! Very good! :thumb:

(Wish I'd a thought of that before posting my foot in my mouth)

EDIT: that almost makes a good signature line.
 
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KTM-Lew

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Jan 26, 2002
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Its a NASCAR thing too......shock holds the car flat on transition at apex but still responds to bumps like it's much "softer".....

Do a search for penske shocks....they have a bunch of interesting reading....
 

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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Thanks everyone for your replies. I tried a search on the penskes I couldn't find any thing other than there website and a few other things. I am not all that great on a computer yet.

OBTW---------- --HOPE YOU ALL HAVE A NICE HOLIDAY--------------------

THANKS russ
 

KTM-Lew

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Jan 26, 2002
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When you do the search for penske shocks look for the 8900 series motorcycle shock....there is a manual down-load for a pdf file.

This is pretty intense info but great reading. I'm curious what Jer thinks about it.
 

Jeff Howe

Member
Apr 19, 2000
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The "digressive" curve is accomplished by using a preload shimstack. I've only played with this on the compression stack, but would like to experiment further with it on the rebound, just for the heck of it. I've used this on both high flow and low flow designs. One problem I experienced was in off camber turns. Seemed like the rear just wanted to stay up to high there. Hopefully I mess around with it more in the future. I can't say I did a really solid objective test program with this concept. It works well at higher speeds but at slower speeds I have to wonder just how much the root and rock crowd would really like it. Only one way to find out, as usual.
 

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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Shocknut does the pre load cause a delay in the dampaning (I mean delay in the shims opening) If this is the case then I wouldn't think it would be a good application for woods rocks. Of course that is my opinion but i am just learning. I take it your talking about riding speeds not shaft speeds. Very intresting I hope all of you can keep this going.

Happy holiday
thanks russ
 

Jeff Howe

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Apr 19, 2000
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The preload concept is the same as preloading your springs. The more preload you use the more intial force it takes to get it to move. It can give a firm feel, but still soak bumps. It's kinda cool...you know how you get on a bike thats too stiff or feels really firm and you go "man this is gonna be harsh", thats what it feels like but it soaks the bumps. So in my opinion..done right, there may be a control advantage in it. However, the amount of preload becomes critical. But, I think there is potential in it but it sure wouldn't be for everyone. I think it works best with heavier vehicles myself...so far anyway. For super aggressive riders it may be good. What I keep wondering is this concept is nothing new, it's been around a long time, and there has to be good reason why nobody has adopted it in the dirt world. However, there is some things I want to try with it, such as different styles of valving build. Thats where I think the answer lays in it. If I get the gumption again this next season, I'll do a full blown assualt on this and report on it. Maybe I'll begin gearing for that as I may not be racing much this next season. I'll try to get more time with this and see what shakes out.

And Russ, I did mean rider speed, as I know when crawling around sometimes in the woods, a firm intial feel might not be the ticket. For a guy that is gonna hammer on it hard all the time it might be better. Woods riders, especially lesser skilled, like a very plush feel initially, but want the bottoming resistance and whoop control as well. Honestly, I think woods guys are the hardest to satisfy overall.
 

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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Personnally I like that feel that you mentioned( kind of stiff but soaks up the bumps) to me some of the real plush stuff i have had the opprotunity to ride felt really loose. maybe your on to some thing there.
Yeah! there a hard bunch. got me thinking now!
 

Jeff Howe

Member
Apr 19, 2000
456
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My personal outlook has always been this. Firm low speed = Control. So really, the preload concept falls into my personal ideals, but I have not taken it far enough to know all or enough of the answers with it. (do we ever know it all...impossible) Loose has always meant low control factor to me. One thing though, don't overlook the midvalve for additional fork performance. Good things come from a good midvalve setup. If you want a firmer feel, try playing with the midvalve a bit, you might be surprised what you can accomplish with that. Geez, now I've got me thinking again. Fun ain't it? BTW, I'm not sure how long ago it was, but I know we discussed this preload concept on this forum before. Jer also commented in that thread with an interesting view. Maybe you can dig that up. It may have been quite awhile ago.
 

Wakisashi

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Apr 29, 2002
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Would a stack like this be useful for high speed desert racing , that unexpected square edge at 90mph???
 

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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I wish that I would of been on this sight back in the day. I think I probably been through all the threads that I can access.and I know some of this stuff is old for alot of you that have been here awhile, but its new to me and I definetly appreciate all the replies.


thanks russ17
 

marcusgunby

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Jan 9, 2000
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Russ i may have read it all before but it doesnt mean i remembered or understood it back then-a refresher is great and this thread has got me thinking.Im using low flow pistons and so far i havnt matched the performance with std pistons(i havnt spent the time with the std stuff as i would only use tested settings on friends bikes)however im fighting a sensation of riding low in the stoke with the low flow pistons-breaking bumps and traction is good but sometimes it feels like im using alot of the travel before i hit a jump.Im wondering if a preloaded stack would help me?

Jeff a few people are trying single stage stacks in shocks-i havnt had any news on how they are working as yet.
 

russ17

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Aug 27, 2002
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I have used high flow pistons in the past and thought that was the way to go (because that was what i was told that bigger was better) and now I feel differently on the subject ( basically from info on this site)unfortunetly i haven't had access to low flow pistons as of yet but have been doing alot of kyb stock stuff (mid valve ect.) can't wait to try a low flow. I feel that the results for me are better with the stock pistons versus high flow. would't adding some low speed allow it to ride up in the stroke a little higher or if your running a 2-stage may be change the the diameter of the seperator shim.I have been playing around with this.

thanks
 

marcusgunby

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Jan 9, 2000
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Yep those things may work as maybe many others, its all about testing time-i can only do so much testing- too much and my race results suffer-if i change the bike too much i cant really trust it when racing.I decided to try to more stuff with std pistons (on the 03 KX125)as most people dont want/afford/understand the need for low flows.

Dont forget the KYB fork pistons are not much bigger in term of port size than a low flow-the shim stacks for a low flow works nearly as good on a KYB fork.
 

KTM-Lew

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Jan 26, 2002
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Anyone had any experience with the type II Gold Valves? I'm assuming they have smaller ports?
 

russ17

Member
Aug 27, 2002
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On this preload shim stack issue is using the dishing of the pistons the only way to obtain this preload or there other means of obtaining pre loaded shim stacks
 

Jeff Howe

Member
Apr 19, 2000
456
1
No it's not Russ. The part can be designed to accomodate the concept and it is adjustable then this way, not fixed.
 
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