DNR Stance on Motorcycle-Only Trail

Smit-Dog

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• Oct 20, 2006

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tdunn976 said:

Do not know if this was the right place to post, But I spoke yesterday with Ozzie Bryant DNR enforcements head to Chief Marble:

Although there is laws in place to allow only Motorcycles on 24" trail the enforcement division of the DNR, WILL NOT enforce!

They see it as: "If an ATV can fit down the trail of public land, no matter the trail markings, we feel they have a right to be there"

Makes Magoo's petition all that MORE important!

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Spoke with Ozzie Bryant today for clarification on this... and here's the gist of what he said:

- The "Motorcycle-Only" signage on certain trails is only a recommendation; there is not a law or ordinance per se that restricts an ORV from using that trail, as long as they abide by the width restriction. If a quad can somehow squeeze down that trail, then they have every right to be there.

- "All trails belong to all riders." After Ozzie stated this, I asked about the use of designated snowmobile trails by other ORVs like quads and dirt bikes. He said that as long as the rider has the appropriate sticker and has paid the trail use fee, they should be able to ride them. The only exception would be if the trail traversed a marshy, swampy area whereby ORV use would cause significant erosion and damage.

So that is why our shrinking single-track trail system is getting wider and wider, and the DNR looks the other way... :bang:

 

ellandoh

dismount art student

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• Oct 20, 2006

• #2

Jeeps?

 

U

UP Magoo

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• Oct 20, 2006

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Exactly why we need MORE riders to sign the petition to get a DNR Directors Order to enforce Motorcycle Only Trail!

See previous thread CLICK HERE

I hope everyone here submits their name on this petition, and gets a couple of freinds to do so as well.

This is EXTREMELY important, IMO. Also, F&S will have the actual petition at Trailfest.

Thanks for everyones help to save singletrack in Michigan!

 

M

morgan

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• Oct 20, 2006

• #4

"All trails belong to all riders."

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There are some pretty nice hiking trails out there. :clue:

 

Wolverine423

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• Oct 22, 2006

• #5

UP Magoo said:

Exactly why we need MORE riders to sign the petition to get a DNR Directors Order to enforce Motorcycle Only Trail!

See previous thread CLICK HERE

I hope everyone here submits their name on this petition, and gets a couple of freinds to do so as well.

This is EXTREMELY important, IMO. Also, F&S will have the actual petition at Trailfest.

Thanks for everyones help to save singletrack in Michigan!

Click to expand...

Cody & myself signed the petition at LMC trailfest this weekend.

 

U

UP Magoo

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• Oct 23, 2006

• #6

Thanks Dewayne!
I hope everyone that attended was able to sign it.
Sounds like TF was a great time (once again)!

 

F

Fred T

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• Oct 23, 2006

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UP Magoo said:

Thanks Dewayne!
I hope everyone that attended was able to sign it.
Sounds like TF was a great time (once again)!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I signed it and there were a LOT of signatures on it. They even flipped it over and used the back. :cool:

 

BadgerMan

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• Oct 23, 2006

• #8

morgan said:

There are some pretty nice hiking trails out there. :clue:

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There are some sweet local MTB trails reserved for two wheeled vehicles. Do you suppose that the same logic applies?

 

F

fatherandson

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• Oct 23, 2006

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Magoo - I will forward you the signatures. There may be some duplicates from previous events, but I tried to discourage it. We had a lot going on at sign up.

 

Smit-Dog

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• Oct 23, 2006

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I signed it at the LM. How do you reconcile duplicate signatures?

Too bad the advisory meeting is before the D-14 banquet.

F&S - Can you bring a copy of the petition to Goshen?

 

F

fatherandson

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• Oct 23, 2006

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I can bring a blank copy to Goshen. We could cross off the duplicate signatures, but too many cross offs will reduce the significance of the petition - IMHO.

 

Smit-Dog

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How do these petitions work? Don't names have to go through some sort of validation process? I would think that duplicate names would also reduce the validity of the petition.

 

U

UP Magoo

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• Oct 23, 2006

• #13

I'd rather have someone on there twice, than not at all!

Petition needs to have name and address; I can/will clean up for submission to the ORV Advisory Committee.

 

K

KTM Mike

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• Oct 23, 2006

• #14

Magoo - FWIW - I think I signed at the LM AND at Trailfest...never even thought about duplication!

 

S

salgeek

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• Oct 29, 2006

• #15

How is it that nobody seems to harbor animosity towards the DNR based on the stance of Marble, Ozzie and crew on 24" inch trails?

 

Smit-Dog

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• Oct 29, 2006

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Marble, Ozzie, et al. are not enthusists... they are just applying the law as they interpret it. I've been under the wrong assumption that trails marked "Cycle Only" are in fact (duh) "Cycle Only" and are/can be enforced. Never knew it was just a recommendation.

While I don't like the fact that "Cycle Only" is not a law/rule/policy than can be enforced, unfortunately animosity is not going to change that. Hopefully this petition will.... :cool:

 

Last edited: Oct 29, 2006

2TrakR

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• Oct 30, 2006

• #17

Cycle-only is not even a recommendation on State land - it is, however, a rule/law on USFS land like with the Holton/Horseshoe/Big-O trails.
PA451 defines a Forest Trail as open to vehicles less than 50 inches in width. That's what an ORV trail is according to the law.
The DNR then has two maintenance specifications, ie guidelines on how the trail should be maintained. One has the trail maintained to the full 50 inches wide, the other has it at 24" on the ground and 40" at the handle bar height. That's just maintenance specification, not a recommendation or rule on what can use the trail (they can't contradict the law).
Have to concur with Smit-Dog, no point in being irked with the DNR when they are following the law.

 

T

tdunn976

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• Oct 30, 2006

• #18

Spoke with Steve Kubiack, today:
As far as the FMF division of DNR is concerned the enforcements postion is not the proper interpertation of the statute, The land use rules which are to clarify statutes muddled things a bit, the FMF has always seen and would perfer that cycle only trail remain as such.
The problem that could arise from the petition is this;
A directors order generally only pertains to a certain spot or in this case trail, if there is environmental damage and or braided trail caused by illegal / atv use then that trail would be specified as such and an directors order would protect this one spot only.
Another problem is that an atv group could then ask that all 50" trail be classified and ordered thus NO MOTORCYCLES!
see the double edge on this.
Waiting to hear back from Steve after a land use meeting is held ( due to our questions) on this subject. Will try to update when I hear.

 

S

salgeek

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• Oct 30, 2006

• #19

2TrakR said:

The DNR then has two maintenance specifications, ie guidelines on how the trail should be maintained. One has the trail maintained to the full 50 inches wide, the other has it at 24" on the ground and 40" at the handle bar height. That's just maintenance specification, not a recommendation or rule on what can use the trail (they can't contradict the law).
Have to concur with Smit-Dog, no point in being irked with the DNR when they are following the law.

Click to expand...

DNR's mission statement:
"The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use and enjoyment of the State's natural resources for current and future generations"

They have neither conserved nor protected any significant miles of trail to the narrower of the two maintenance specs. Of late they seem only interested in increasing their coffers by charging exorbitant fees to stage an event. Makes me wonder how commited they are to their stated goals "the use and enjoyment of the State's natural resources".

 

Last edited: Oct 30, 2006

Smit-Dog

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• Dec 19, 2006

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December 2006 issue of CCC TrailRider... said:

Motorcycle Only Trail

For the last two months were having been receiving comments as to what the position of the CCC should be on “Motorcycle Only Trail”. To date it has been about 8 to 1 in support of enforcement of “Motorcycle Only” trail. This would not close ATV’s out of one mile of trail currently being maintained at 50” or 72” route. It is my understanding the Director of the DNR would not issue a Directors Order to Enforce “Motorcycle Only” trail. The petition to support such an order was not presented at the November 8 Trails Advisory Board Meeting.

Click to expand...

Any insight as to why the petition was not presented at the 11/8 meeting?