Euro MX- what's the US perception?

[SULLY]

Hi all, I realise this is predominantly a US site, but I see very little of European MX being discussed. In the 60's and 70's the US racers used to come to Europe to do the 'Euro Circuit' in order to get a more rounded experience of the sport( a certain M Smith rode many enduros and desert meets in Europe!) , it could even be said that the home of the sport is Europe, with so many Belgian, Dutch, UK, Russian etc... riders dominating the sport in it's early days.

I am interested to learn the US perception of Euro MX, I wonder if it is as equally reported and understood as US MX/SX is here in UK .

For example I recently went to see 6 times world champion Stephan Everts ride in this years 'Euro?' Grand Prix which includes Euro, South African, New Zealand and some Japanese riders competing, does this championship get reported in the US?

I wonder how a true 'World Championship' would pan out. Very expensive to host for sure, but hey, we seem to manage it for alot of other sports, like soccer, swimming, athletics, etc...

I think the 'MX Des Nations' concept should have a severe workout and be brought up to date in a format that could meet commercial and spectator expectations in 2004.

comments please, Sully

 

[marcusgunby]

I know where this one is headed :joke:

 

[pace]

Most Americans don't care, at best. The negative attitudes are precipitated in part by very derogatory commentary and anti-FIM statements in the US mags. MXA in particular, comes to mind.

I'm a British ex-pat who fondly remembers the Dave Thorpe era that I grew up in. Many American motocrossers probably never even heard of the guy. I'd certainly like to see more coverage of the euro racing, but heck they can't even give us live AMA events on the tube so it's not likely to happen any time soon.

-Pace

 

[SpectraSVT]

I started to watch them on speed channel but the announcer sounds like he is watching golf. Plus I just don't sense the incredible speeds on the Euro tracks as I do when watching the nationals here. It looks like everyone is cruising. With RC spanking Everts last year and even Hughes catching and passing him in the heat race doesn't make me thnk there are better riders over there. Maybe if they had a better announcer I would watch it more.

 

[Barbarian]

Europe has some great trials riders and enduro guys, but there a tiny bit behind on mx. That doesn't mean it's bad racing though.

 

[Okiewan]

No doubt Europe is the birthplace of MX, I remember well when the Americans were spanked on a regular basis. A lot of good history there. Seeing Marty Smith put it to the "Euros" at Mid Ohio (Trans AMA) was a big deal. Pomeroy, Lacky... great stuff back in the day.

We don't get to see the GP's here, it's hard to get into it when there's no coverage. As mentioned, the the few races televised here (that I saw) in recent history were pretty boring; poor camera work and too few of them, the guy calling it seemed over medicated. It was MX though so it was better than watching a swimming meet.

Fans will like the series that has exposure and the personalities they are familiar with. As far as a World Championship goes... it's a lot different than sending some guys and a soccer ball all over the world.

 

[super rat]

The GP's are a whole step down from the nationals. We have the best riders and the best tracks. World champ? no way.

 

[muddy226]

The GP's are a whole step down from the nationals. We have the best riders and the best tracks. World champ? no way.

"A whole step down" may be a little harsh. Ask Mike Brown and Rhino how easy they found it to win.

 

[super rat]

I'll ask Seb while I'm at it. Come on, it's no secret the GP's are the B class, sorry. I'm not trying to piss you off but it's the truth. Ryno has never won a title over here either.

 

[YZ165]

GP's are the B class

:laugh: Not sure I agree, but it was funny!

 

[mxer842]

I don't know the courrent standings in the GP's but isn't Everts(sp?) perfect so far this year, or nearly? Didn't RC blow by Everts on a euro style track that should have favored Everts while having a torn ACL and on a cr250 while Everts was on a works 650 at MXDN? Sorry, but I agree with mighty mouse on this one, the GP's are second tier to the US.

 

[pace]

Yup.. and it's a catch-22. Until the top US riders get involved in the GPs, the level of competition isn't likely to match the Nationals and consequently the Euro events won't get much coverage here. But few (none) top ranking US riders will take them seriously until the profile of the GPs is raised in the US.

-Pace

 

[super rat]

It's stupid rat, squid.

LOL!!

 

[marcusgunby]

mxer you are streching the facts a little, everts and rc had some good battles in the heats and the races, evert pushed rc and then he did pull away.Everts was beat by RC fair and square but RC payed Everts more respect after the MXDN than most americans do on this board, At present america has the 2 fastest riders in the world in RC and bubba-apart from them you have nothing, KW wouldnt win a world championship and nor would any others, Chad came 2nd in the GPs and probably will do in the Nationals, the levels are similar but RC and Bubba have a bit extra, in fact the depth of the 250 class in AMA looks weak to me-after the top 3 there is little going on, in the Gps you have a possibilty of 5 different riders winning.

 

[weimedog]

I still follow Euro MX. I was dissapointed when they went to the one race format. I prefere to watch GP style vs. US AMA Nationals which are SX style obsicles mixed with out door stuff. So do my sons. So do many of my freinds. I keep hoping the US out door series resists the trends to go more and more SX.

One of my favorite races of all time was the four stroke national race out in Milliken Colorado the fall of 2000.where Ger Jan Van Dorn and Keith Johnson dueled it out on a natural terrain style track..leaving the four stroke national regulars at the time over 1/2 the track behind. Keith Johnson won on a 540 factory KTM because he handled the man make whoop section right before the finish line better. Van Dorn was faster on the open fast sections. Watching Van Dorn sawing the bars in a 4 gear corner feet up running down Johnson to pass him only to get nipped in that whoop section seemed to cheapen the race. I much prefer to watch speed vs. timing over man made sections and came away feeling Van Dorn was a better rider on a better bike AND a hell of a lot more fun to watch.

Thats analogy is how I feel about US style racing vs. Euro. And after watching the 250 & 125 national at Binghamton last year...I still feel the same. Unadilla is still the best track on our circuit for me to watch. I wish there was more coverage of the European circuit...IF they resisted the urge to become more like our SX stuff.

I don't watch many Motocross events anymore. Stick to hare scrambles and other natural terrain type things. Based on the growth of non MX offroad style events I'm not alone.

The only reason I went to Binghamton is to watch RC, KW, and Jame Stewart..the best riders in the world. And they did put on one hell of a show. I believe we do have to top three riders....and attact the best of the rest because of the bucks involved here. I'd still prefer to watch the Euro GP style races. They have some talent and its the format that's more attractive to me.

 

[Okiewan]

Wow Marcus! That's a pretty bold statement!

KW wouldnt win a world championship and nor would any others

Bold indeed! Based on your logic, KW is faster than Everts, since KW has not only pushed, but beaten RC outside. I don't think it's that simple, sorry.

So I guess the rub is this; there's not enough $$ in Europe for the Americans to go and Euro's (except the ones already here) don't SX, so they won't come here (just to run one half of the two series). Looks like we'll never find out about the depth of any class.

 

[muddy226]

Everts is not as fast as he was although he is consistent. As far as RC is concerned I think that he is currently the fastest MXer, but it wasn't that long ago Seb Tortelli beat him at his own game, i.e sheer speed and guts. I don't see how anyone can call the world championsips 2nd class, if a US rider wants to be the champion of the world and not just the US they are more than welcome to enter. If the current best in the world were all in the championship I think we would have a US winner ( RC ), but I would be surprised if he won it so easy as he is winning the nationals right now. My two current favourite riders, Everts and Windham, would be in a very entertaining fight for runner up. The main point being that if you want to be world champion, you have to enter.

 

[slideways11]

There is no world MX champion. There is a European champion and an American champion. You could possibly say that there is a world SX champion, Chad Reed although nobody would know what you were talking about. The whole AMA/World championship SX thing is quite confusing. Or you might possibly say that winner of the MXDN was the world champion. So would the world champion be RC? Or would team Belguim be the world champions? Who knows???
I believe most Americans have no perception of European MX simply because it gets no coverage in the US. In the 70's every MXer's dream was to go to Europe and win the GP's, now every MXer's dream is to go to America and be the SX champion.

 

[bclapham]

LOL- i saw this thread and its just like a car crash, i know i should drive past, but i cant help but look. The funny thing is, most american MX fans are so misinformed or have very little idea about MX outside the US, yet they will quickly jump to the concusion that the talent out there is sub par. kudos to RacerX for the stuff they put out, i think i should subscribe to them, Lord Alfred is my hero :woorship:

after RC and JBS thats it, take them two out of the equasion and the rest of the pack would be pretty close. I actually think the GPs are getting better, same format as the US, lots of top riders are staying put now also and they have 1-2 rounds outside europe as well i thinkk- not fixed but getting better.

but what makes me laugh is that people think the AMA champps is soooo superior, yet they have a production rule to make it easier for amatuers to be competative and a split support class for the SX- if its the full pinacle of the sport- you dont see some dude wearing spandex and a cape driving a tricked out honda civic trying to qualify for the pole at Monaco???

 

[billtx]

My TIVO system allows me to watch the FIM races. They are broadcast at 1:00am or something like that, so most people are not going to watch it. I really do enjoy wtaching the FIM races, why not it has dirt bikes in it. I don't perceive Europe to have inferior riders at all, they just don't have SX style tracks and the guys don't get used to riding that way. I can't see any reason for Europeans to come over here unless their sponsors want them to. Have you looked at AMA purse money recently? I'm not sure 1st place would pay for the plane ticket across the pond.

By the way, did anyone see Catherine Bell on Motoworld a few weeks ago? That 30 minute show justified the TIVO purchase and a lifetime subscription. Thank you to whoever produced that show, OMG!!

 

[marcusgunby]

Okie is right on a few things, the world gp riders cannot go over to the US unless they can do SX-this is where most world gp champions have come up short in every sence, Tortelli, GL and Albie all had real problems doing SX and often got hurt-then demoralised they went into the outdoor season.

Okie i honestly beleive KW would struggle especially in the first year-yes he beat RC occasionally but who says everts wouldnt, RC had a major disire to win the MXdn -more than trying to beat KW when he was 'on it' RC knows KW will go fast at a few tracks but overall he will not be consistant-no need to really do anything other than ride around in 2nd for those select events.

Now lets talk of the other riders, Pichon beat Everts by more than RC did but then he blew his knee out badly in a low speed crash in practice(just after he set a time 3 seconds a lap faster than the 4 strokes)Joel Smets has gone as fast as everts but not recently, we have Stribos who just won a GP-Coppins can fly on his day-Crockard showed his speed at the MXdn, Ramon is also very fast, Melotte has showed Everts his wheels a few times this year-so you see there is a good amount of telent with all of them roughtly the same speed on there given day, but as usual Everts is the most consistant and will probably win the title.Everts is fast but he is also clever-he knew RC was faster and he didnt crash trying, and his team won-important to remember that.

 

[mxer842]

Keith Johnson won on a 540 factory KTM because he handled the man make whoop section right before the finish line better. Van Dorn was faster on the open fast sections. Watching Van Dorn sawing the bars in a 4 gear corner feet up running down Johnson to pass him only to get nipped in that whoop section seemed to cheapen the race.

I don't know how those whoops look on TV but yes they are man made but they aren't anything close to SX whoops, they are uneven, have varying distances and heights and are more like uneven insanely large braking bumps.

Marcus you are right JBS and RC are the best in the world but after that all we have are riders comprable to Everts, Smets, Coppins, Etc. yes, but we also have 19 MXDN wins in the last 23 years. Euro guys are fast but we we always have a handful of guys here that are just a little bit faster.

 

[muddy226]

There is no world MX champion. There is a European champion and an American champion. You could possibly say that there is a world SX champion, Chad Reed although nobody would know what you were talking about. The whole AMA/World championship SX thing is quite confusing. Or you might possibly say that winner of the MXDN was the world champion. So would the world champion be RC? Or would team Belguim be the world champions? Who knows???
I believe most Americans have no perception of European MX simply because it gets no coverage in the US. In the 70's every MXer's dream was to go to Europe and win the GP's, now every MXer's dream is to go to America and be the SX champion.

Well I guess that answers the question about perception. There is a world championship series, a European championship series, and a US championship series. The world championship series is, I believe, run under the auspices of the FIM ( Federation International Motorcycliste ) and the US series under the auspices of the AMA, a NATIONAL organisation. There is a World champion, a European champion and an AMA champion. Its a great shame that the US doesn't get coverage. One of the reasons might be that the standard of coverage is so sub-standard, particularly for someone used to the standard of coverage for US SX or outdoors, that most networks would probably not buy it. Until this issue is properly addressed the perception will remain as is. The fact that it is confusing is also very relevant, fans need to have something clear cut and easy to understand. There is no doubt that the organisers of the world championship could benefit by importing some American talent in the marketing department.

 

[HobRoff]

Well, having grown up in the 70's most of my MX heros were European and Heikki Mikkola (sp) was the star of one of the posters in my bedroom, the rest being of the black light variety. I try and follow the European scene and the American scene equally as much as I am able on the internet and the occasional magazine I buy, my only news source's as in the immortal words of John Prine I "Blew away my TV" Don't much care for SX, I am all for the great outdoors and big natural terrain tracks and many of the European tracks look as challenging as many of our outdoor tracks. I have a video that has footage of the Maggiora, Italy 250 GP where Ryno takes third, Pit Bier first and Vullimien(sp) second and that track looks awesome. Unfortunatly Pit had a major injury last year - has anyone heard how he is doing? I would like to see something similar to the Formula 1 series, in my mind the only other sport worthy of mention, :joke: with many international events.

 

[muddy226]

I saw that crash on TV, its just about the worst thing I've seen in MX, the crash wasn't that bad but the sight of Pit in the middle of the track waving his arms and unable to move his legs will stay with me a long time. The last I heard he is still wheelchair bound and will remain so. Very sad.