Experienced rider new to motocross

[shagymoe]

Hi all, I'm looking to get some bikes in the spring and need help choosing the right bikes to get. I'm actually buying 4 bikes for myself and my three sons and a quad for my daughter. Here are our ages (33, 14, 12, 11, 8 (the girl)). I've been riding most of my life with a big gap in the poor and broke years but my dirt bikes as a kid were weak. I'm a street rider now and have a 2004 Yamaha R6.

We have a family dirt bike which everyone rides and it is a 1991 Honda z50r. They all love it and I they are all begging me for new bikes. I'm not looking for advice for each one....mainly for myself and the oldest boy. The problem is that I am out of the loop on dirt bikes and really don't know what to get for me or for him. I want to get him something that he can race if he decides to do so, and I need something that I can keep up with him and maybe race in the old man class LOL. So, I'll answer the questions from the sticky and maybe I'll get some good feedback.

For Me:
I am 5' 10" 175lbs, a fairly skinny guy but definitely a scrapper and usually work harder than the big guys. I plan to do trail riding and hit the track as much as possible with my oldest son. I rode dirt bikes as a kid and have been a street rider for 5 years. I doubt I will race because I'm old (by MX standards anyway) but if there are some local amateur races for older guys I might give it a shot, who knows... I am fairly mechanically inclined and always do intermediate repairs...I've had carbs apart and wheels off etc... but no major engine work. I don't currently have a preference of brand or 2/4 stroke but I'm used to 4 strokes. I will definitely use the local dealer and they carry a lot of Hondas, some Yamahas, some Kawasakis and a few Suzukis. I want to spend $2500 to $3000 on my bike. I've had some people tell me that a 125 2 stroke is enough but I'm thinking that a 250 4 stroke might be more what I need. Then again, the Honda 450 is really popular and my sportbike is a 600 so who knows. I don't want a bike that is too heavy though.

My son:
He is 14 yrs, 5' 5", 135 lbs and an athelete. His feet are huge so I think he will be a bit taller than me. He will be doing trail riding and says he wants to get into racing. He only has experience on a z50r so that ain't saying much. He has a friend who has just a biti more experience and he has a 125 KX 2 stroke and I think it might be too much but it is hard to say...a hand-me-down from a racing cousin. I'm thinking that I might get him a 2 stroke KX85 that he can pass down when he gets too old for it. I think he will grow out of it quick though.

Ok, well thats all I can think of for now, let me know what you think.

 

[dirt bike dave]

For you, I think you would have a blast on either a 250 two stroke or a 250 four stroke MX bike. My personal preference is for 250 two stroke - more bike for the money, less maintenance and I just think they are the most fun bikes to ride.

For your oldest son, any of the bikes will be a huge step up from the z50. You might look into a KX100 Big Wheel, or get a more mild bike like a 125 four stroke (TTR125?) as an interim bike. Then he can then pass that on to one of the younger kids when you get him a 125 two stroke in a year or so.

 

[shagymoe]

Thanks for the reply Dave. It was my understanding that you can basically multiply a two stroke displacement by 2 in order to get the 4 stroke equivalent. So, a 250 2 stroke is like a 500 4 stroke and a 125 2 stroke is like a 250 4 stroke. Is that not true? I assumed that it isn't an exact, but a general rule.

I ask because you say a 250 2 or 4 stroke will be good, but I would assume from the rule above that the 250 2 would have a lot more power...maybe this is why you say it would be more fun :)

I forgot to mention that my son really wants to be able to jump his bike. He keeps jumping the 50 and I keep telling him that he is going to break it and his head at the same time. :yikes: I've been told that the trail bikes are no good for jumping and that he will need a motocross bike if he wants to do that. I would also like to be able to jump at least a little bit.

I'm also surprised that the 250 2 is less maintenance than the 4. I specifically asked the dealer about this and he said that 2 strokes are WAY more maintenance. Any thoughts on that?

 

[CaptainObvious]

I'd suggest the same bike(s) for both of you; YZ250F or CFR250

 

[dirt bike dave]

The modern 4 strokes are very sophisticated and produce usable power over a very ride rpm range compared to the two strokes. The 450 4 strokes produce more power over a wider range than the 250 two strokes, but for most riders the 250 2 stroke has plenty of power. The two stroke 250 will make more power than the four stroke 250 (approx. 10-15 more peak hp), but nowhere near twice the power. Weight will be close but the 2 stroke 250 might feel a little lighter than a 250f - weight won't be a problem with either.

Maintenance costs and effort is a touchy subject - both 2st and 4st fans will proclaim the advantages of their side. I'll leave that can of worms unopened, but you might want to do some more research in that area, especially if you will be keeping a stable of bikes. As a general rule, race bikes are going to be more expensive to keep going than a mildly tuned trail bike.

If resale value will impact your decision, look into your local market conditions, too (125 two strokes might not have much resale value, for example, so you might score a great deal on a used one but have trouble selling in a few years).

Any modern MX bike will more than fulfill your son's desire for air after coming off a z50! The trail bikes like a ttr125L or even a KDX200 would probably be a good stepping stone for him. While not as big-air worthy as MXers, they would still be a huge improvement over what he's used to.

 

[shagymoe]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I understand things a bit better now.

 

[Stryke]

for you i would say get a 450 4 stroke or 250 2 stroke. They are both nearly equal in power, as is the reason why the 250 2t and the 450 4t race in the same class. But with the 450 you will have a little bit more weight like 15 pounds but u will gain more torque and horsepower which makes it easier to go slow and ride. The 2 strokes have a power band that is very abrupt while the 4 strokes generate more a little more power they are more like a street bike and dont kick in with power so hard. They are more smooth with the power, but more powerful. One rider told me if ur starting get the 250 fourstroke or 450 fourstroke because u dont have to learn how to blip the throttle whenever u ride.

125 2 strokes are nearly eqaul to 250 4 strokes in power but they have a big power band. While 250fs are a little heavier but make up for the added weight with smoother more powerful engines.

same goes for the bigger class
250 2 strokes are nearly eqaul to 450 4 strokes in power but they have a big power band. While 450fs are a little heavier but make up for the added weight with smoother more powerful engines.

all the bikes 125s 250s and 450s go about the same speed and are nearly the same size. But the difference is how fast they all get to there top speed.

125/250f class bikes generate around 37 horsepower stock i think.

250/450f class bikes generate around the 50s or low fifties in horsies.

I would say for u get the 4 stroke 250f and 450f. The learning curce should be about the same and u dont have to go fast just gradually learn the power.
the 2 strokes have a larger learning curve they are the best choice for people who are coming of of the cr/kx/rm80s and stuff. They are used to twisting the wrist more and a 125 is perfect for them.

any ways theres my 2 cents... i think thats some good info to help u make your choice. and as for ur older son who is 14 and 135lbs id say get him a 2 stroke 80 or 85cc. 80s 2 strokes have alot of power im told. and should be a good starter bike for ur son. Then when he gets to be about the size 5'9 and 150lbs buy him a 125 2 stroke or 250 4 stroke.

good luck

becareful where ur from tho some places in the us might only let u ride mx bikes on the track not trail.

 

[tnrider]

i have both the ttr125 (wife and son ride this) and the crf450

i think the ttr125 will be too small for your son. i doubt that you can come up with a good learning bike that he can mx race - these are two distinct programs... for mx if he can touch the ground, it is rideable. for learning or trail riding, i prefer at minimum the kids "flat foot" the ground - more is better here... perhaps a 2-stroke 100 but it has no native racing class.

and for you the crf250 has a higher maintenance frequency than the crf450 -- there is not a significant weight difference in the bikes or certainly not in the feel to me.

 

[shagymoe]

Stryke,

Funny you mention the 450 because I have read that it is the best selling mx bike and I'm guessing that for the 30+ class it is the bike to have. If you don't get the hole shot you are screwed right? LOL

I've been reading really great things about the YZ250F and although I'm a long time rider I'm new to dirbikes (at least in the last 15 years!) so a 450 might be too much.

We have a few places to amatuer race around my area on Fri, Sat and Sundays so I figure I can at least give it a shot and let my kids get a taste of it and see if they want to try it.

Also it was interesting to see someone suggest the 85 because I was looking at a kx85 for my oldest and it seemed to be a good fit.

Anyway, I've got about 8 months to get it all figured out...I hate winter! :debil:

Thanks for the replies...every little bit helps.

 

[mdkuder]

KTM makes a bike for all riders and they are working on a quad!

 

[pyrofreak]

Do I daresay, what about a bike for the significant other (ie:wife, girlfriend, etc.)

 

[shagymoe]

No worries about that....I'm divorced. How else could I get away with buying 5 dirt bikes, a trailer and a truck to haul it all?

 

[meademac]

For your son maybe a Cr85 Expert. I've got one and I love it. :)