Gaa! Countershaft splines damaged.

[reepicheep]

The Craigslist "bargin" bike is getting worse by the moment. Last night, the top end goes off to Eric Gorr, tonight I pull off the front sprocket to get ready to touch up the paint on the frame.

Well, I don't know how they did it, but the previous owner thoroughly trashed those splines. The sprocket splines were in pretty good shape, the shaft splines are probably 50% gone.

Any old school hacks to deal with this without replacing that shaft? Anybody ever just welded the sprocket to the shaft? How gone is "gone" on those splines?

:bang:

That shaft is a $90 part, which is annoying, but will require splitting the cases, which is demoralizing.

Somebody tell me it's not that bad :(

 

[Tom68]

I'd be splitting it before getting the topend done it may need crankwork as well.

 

[reepicheep]

The play along the axis of the crank was well below the service limit... and there was no discernible vertical play. Who knows what other surprises I will find when I get in there though...

 

[reepicheep]

Well, I took a "milk crate moment" this morning and looked through the manual... since I already have the top end off, and the bike is nearly completely stripped down, splitting the cases actually doesn't look like that bad a job. So here we go. :yikes:

I'll go troll the archives for a while, the questions I have so far are if I really need the special tool the manual shows to split the case and to know which seals I should go ahead and replace while I have the thing apart.

Any other "if you split the cases anyway, you might as well..." type suggestions?

 

[porterdog]

Any other "if you split the cases anyway, you might as well..." type suggestions?

Given what you've found already I'd take it apart immediately and examine everything I could before continuing. Look at the tranny gears, check the clutch basket, go thru the KIPS parts if you haven't. Sounds like you may be on the verge of being in so deep it doesn't make sense NOT to finish, regardless of the cost.

If I had a welder and this was just a buddy bike or play bike, I think I'd consider welding a new sprocket on. Do it correctly and you'd be able to grind off the weld when you needed a new sprocket (and I'd for damn sure buy the best one I could get.)

$0.02,
Robert

 

[mudpack]

which seals I should go ahead and replace while I have the thing apart

At that point, I know of no good reason to not replace all of them.

Mud

 

[reepicheep]

Thanks for the suggestions Robert. The bike is currently almost completely stripped down anyway, and I have a torn ACL and cant ride for a while anyway. So it seems crazy to not just finish the job right and split the cases and replace that shaft.

If it was mid season, and the bike was completely assembled, I'd be tempted to weld a sprocket on and ride it until winter.

 

[reepicheep]

Thanks also Mudpack... you have given me good advice on a number of threads now. Time to pour through the parts diagrams and find everything that says "seal".

What about circlips? Every time I have done "outside the case split" repairs on various bikes, I just re-use the circlips (handling them gently), even though the manuals always say "don't reuse them". Maybe, as this is a "split the case" repair, I should replace those as well, just to be safe. On the other hand, the $1.85 Kawasaki wants for each of them borders on criminal... :yell:

 

[reepicheep]

Oh, and a correction so that when this goes in the archives I don't confuse anyone...

It's not the counter / lay shaft that has the splines that drive the front chain sprocket, it's the main shaft. The parts fiche calls it "Shaft, transmission" and it is part 13128-1164. It seems to go for about $87 from Kawasaki, and entire transmissions (used pulls) seem to be going for from $90 to $150 on ebay.

That same part seems to be common from 1990 and up... It is not compatible as the 86,87,88 models.

Given the only thing I think I need is that shaft, I'll probably just buy new. Unless somebody here needs some other transmission parts and wants to split the cost of one of the ebay full tranny's with me.

Now here's another question. What about carefully welding a bead, and had fitting and filing that back to be a "repaired" spline? I would leave the oil seal in and fill the transmission with sacrificial oil (all the way to the top) to manage the heat... and plan on possibly replacing the oil seal when I am done. Does that transmission oil seal come out without splitting the cases?

I think I can do the weld and fitting, and if it goes terribly wrong I am just right back where I started, needing a new shaft. Is there other stuff in there that would suffer from the heat?

 

[_JOE_]

I would think you spend as much time fiddle farting around trying to weld up and file new splines as it would take to plit the cases and replace that shaft.

 

[reepicheep]

Absolutely, but it would save me $86 for the new shaft. :nener:

But that would be false economy if the case needs to be split anyway for some other good reason, or if the welded splines are not strong enough to hold up well. Both of which seem likely... :think:

 

[reepicheep]

Ugh. Instead of looking at the exploded parts diagram, I looked at the actual bike when I got home.

No way I am welding and machining that without risking hurting something. Looks like I am splitting the cases...

Thanks all!

 

[Tom68]

Woops

 

[Tom68]

Take it from someone that spends (wastes) a lot of time patching stuff, buy the new shaft and enjoy the confidence of having a reliable component. Leave the patching for NLA componentry.

 

[reepicheep]

Well, motor is out of the frame. That was easy.

Which of course revealed rusty bearings on the swingarm (and no doubt the pivots), so all *that* will have to come out and be cleaned and will need new bearings as well.

What do you suppose I will discover when the shock comes out? :whoa:

I'm going to draw the line at powdercoating the frame though. Probably.

It's a miracle this bike was running when I bought it... given that pretty much everything on it has issues.

 

[_JOE_]

I suppose you'll find more rusty bearings. You might as well quit adding up the cost and start buying parts. At least by the time you're healed up the bike will be all fresh and tight and you'll know what you have.

Didn't anyone ever tell you there's no such thing as a cheap or bargain bike? :nener:

 

[reepicheep]

The part that makes it hard was that I got this one for $850, but there was a 2000 for $1500. So every time I do something to this one, I of course picture the other bike (which I never saw) as some sort of pristine nirvana state (which I'm sure it wasn't... the thing had not been run in more then 5 years)...

 

[_JOE_]

It would've probly needed all the same suspension bearings and stuff anyway. Don't beat yourself up about it, enjoy the build and have fun with it when it's done. It'll be worth it in the end.