GM - Ford – Chrysler

[Wolverine423]

I'm all in favor of being a good American, and you truly are a good American for feeling the way that you do.
However, I personally would worry about yourself/myself FIRST!!. Do you really believe that the UAW is looking out for the best interest of the "American" people?.......heck no. They are looking to make the most money they can, and if it comes at the expense of the tax payers...then,...WHO CARES! That, in my opinion, is as unamerican as it gets. Therefore, go down to your favorite dealership and get what makes you and your wife happy.....no matter what brand it is. Worry about yourself, not a sinking ship.

How true it is. :cool:

 

[bbarel]

Well they are almost giving away GMs, Chryslers and Fords, so you should have plenty of $$ left over to fix em when they break.

 

[2big4akdx]

Whew...long read. Don't get much time on here, but I need to make some comments. I work for GM, therefore I am a member of the UAW. And those of you who make the general claim auto workers are lazy and greedy are wrong. I and most of the people I work with are hard working, and we do care about the quality of our work. There are some , as in any workplace, that don't want to, and I, along with those I work with don't like it any more than you would. I am with you that think those who do not want to work, or just don't show up should be fired and replaced with people the want to work. I know there are many out there that would love to have my job. We know we make good money and have great benifits, which is why most of us do work hard,care about the quality of our work, and are working hard to improve that which we can control. Generaly stating that auto workers are lazy is like saying people on SSI are too lazy to work and auto mechanics are cheats. I know that's not true and so do you.
Greedy?? Auto workers are more than willing to open our wallets when groups have fundraisers or local communities and charities ask for help. Don't call us greedy because we make the money we make. And I believe there are many who would take a pay cut, along with other cuts, to save their jobs. Like I said, I don't believe in everything the union stands for.( I may take alot of heat for this from some members, but this is what I believe and I really don't care what some of them think.) And here's something to think about. Mr Wagner, over the year 07,(havn't worked out 08 figures yet, and I know he is working for $1 now) made more money in two weeks than I'v made since I'v been at GM...6 yrs.
I also think that GM builds great autos...I better belive that. I have owned GM most of my life and have had no major problems. Nothing enough to make me buy a transplant. Both my vehicles I currently own have over 140,000 miles on them. The one I gave my daughter now has 128,000. And the one we totaled out a few years back had 158,000 on it. All with nothing but regular maintenace(brakes, oil/lube, tires,mufflers,etc) and a few minor repairs(window regulators, belt tensioner bearing,front wheel bearing) There may be more than I can not think of now, and I am sure there are. But I will continue to buy American make automobles in the future.
If you think along the lines that if the D3 fail, transplants could take over thier plants and we could work for them, I guess that could happen. But how about we all buy D3 autos, transplants could close shop, those people come work for us, and D3 can pay back loans. Win, win, win. You want you money back, buy american.

 

[_JOE_]

It's great to get input from those who are in the UAW. I take it you guys don't get much of a voice for the money you spend to keep the union operating? It seems to most of us on the outside that the UAW doesn't want to give up anything. At any rate, I don't feel that you guys are the problem. As you said, most of the union members are hard workers, the problems lie higher up.

It is common for those who have been long time domestic vehicle owners not to realize how much better some "imports" are. I won't deny that a domestic can be driven over a quarter million miles. It is the amount of repairs required to keep the vehicle going(in a reason fashion). Some people don't seem to care if they ride around a rattle trap that leaks fluids all over. I see plenty of people who say they've never had any major repairs, only becuase they choose not fix the problems they have. This is the reason resale value is so bad on most domestics. A dealer has to factor in the cost of repairing a vehicle to resellable condition. That can be expensive if a vehicle has been neglected by someone who doesn't want to believe there beloved domestic automoblie needs to be repaired.

I don't think the domestic mfr's would be able save thier companies if everybody bought a new car. They'd piss the profits away on private jets, bonuses and multi-million dollar vacation homes while the company goes under. Polishsuasage said it best...

Worry about yourself, not a sinking ship.

 

[Yam7M]

It's great to get input from those who are in the UAW. I take it you guys don't get much of a voice for the money you spend to keep the union operating? It seems to most of us on the outside that the UAW doesn't want to give up anything. At any rate, I don't feel that you guys are the problem. As you said, most of the union members are hard workers, the problems lie higher up.

It is common for those who have been long time domestic vehicle owners to realize how much better some "imports" are. I won't deny that a domestic can be driven over a quarter million miles. It is the amount of repairs required to keep the vehicle going(in a reason fashion). Some people don't seem to care if they ride around a rattle trap that leaks fluids all over. I see plenty of people who say they've never had any major repairs, only becuase they choose not fix the problems they have. This is the reason resale value is so bad on most domestics. A dealer has to factor in the cost of repairing a vehicle to resellable condition. That can be expensive if a vehicle has been neglected by someone who doesn't want to believe there beloved domestic automoblie needs to be repaired.

I don't think the domestic mfr's would be able save thier companies if everybody bought a new car. They'd piss the profits away on private jets, bonuses and multi-million dollar vacation homes while the company goes under. Polishsuasage said it best...

Agreed and well put :nod:

I have had to replace the transfer case twice on my 03 Duramax (Allison Tranny)....once at the dealers expense, once on my dime (left me stranded on the way to a race :pissed: ). There were also multiple recalls...some substantial, some ticky-tack. They all add up, and when you shell out that kind of cash (over 40K), you anticipate some higher quality. Disappointment is a good start at describing how I feel.....but my dealer has been great! It still leaves me wondering how I would have faired with a Tundra. :think:

The problem is rarely with the indians....it's with the chiefs. Too many chiefs that ruin the good practice of the great american workers. The problem isn't going to be solved by buying all the available D3 cars out there...just like Joe said....they'll piss away the $$$ on a bunch of crap. It's obvious the other non-domestic players that aren't having these problems, as is evident by their stability and no need for bail-outs, would have no problem taking over these plants and creating a well run and profitable company(s). It's too bad that our government appears to be hell bent on continuing to hand them cash hand over fist, just so they can ask for more. The more they depend on the govt for bailouts, the worse it's going to get.

Sometimes corrupt systems just need to die off so that something profitable and well ran can take over.

 

[IndyMX]

I've commented here and other places about how I feel the UAW is corrupt and greedy, but I'd never put that label on the actual workers.. The individuals working in the plants can only work within the constraints of the contract, and the majority of them didn't have any say in how the contract was structured.

But, the unions themselves are broken. They definitely have outlived their usefulness and need to be replaced.

They are one of the primary reasons that companies like GM are in so much trouble, and why there is so much corruption in politics.

I'll never be convinced that unions are anything but bad for a productive society.

 

[_JOE_]

They were good when people had to worry about being taken advantage of by thier employer. That's not a big problem anymore. Seems unions are better at protecting poor workers than anything these days.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Blaming the unions is the best bs that the big 3 can come up with. Of course unions may well have out lived their usefulness, but all them union guys that work at the offices get paid the same or better than than the guys who actually work. Like the ceo of gm would get behind a microphone and tell the press that any 5 ceos total payout is more than any issue with the uaw, that out sourcing all their parts, and investing outside our borders may not have been such a good idea? Maybe they will even make an electric car without a gasoline engine for back up? Lazy and greedy, go see: government and big business. Biggest issue, common sense does not always make good profits, on paper or graphs. And common sense, they do not teach that class at college.

 

[IndyMX]

Blaming the unions is the best bs that the big 3 can come up with. Of course unions may well have out lived their usefulness, but all them union guys that work at the offices get paid the same or better than than the guys who actually work. Like the ceo of gm would get behind a microphone and tell the press that any 5 ceos total payout is more than any issue with the uaw, that out sourcing all their parts, and investing outside our borders may not have been such a good idea? Maybe they will even make an electric car without a gasoline engine for back up? Lazy and greedy, go see: government and big business. Biggest issue, common sense does not always make good profits, on paper or graphs. And common sense, they do not teach that class at college.

See Bob, that's the thing.. The unions (not the workers, but the organization) only real purpose now is to keep the union in power. Just like most politicians only care about getting elected.

Beyond that basic goal, they have no purpose. I've seen them in action with my dad, and it really defies logic how they operate.

I'm all for getting rid of the unions, and imposing a 1 term limit on congress & the senate.

I also think it would be nice if the political affiliation of the judges that are nominated to the Supreme court was somehow not a part of the equation.. Not sure exactly how we'd go about that, but it would be nice if there was a way to do it.

I also would be very much in favor if there was just a little less media access to government. Perhaps a delay of some sort, so that we the people didn't have up to the minute details of every fart that is let in Washington. Maybe then, the media would be a bit more responsible about what gets reported.
Seems that they jump the gun, and report things out of context too much in order to get the story out first.

Perhaps if they weren't so quick to move a story, they'd actually investigate to try to uncover the truth first.

I know that will never happen, but it'd be nice.

 

[polishsausage]

Blaming the unions is the best bs that the big 3 can come up with. Of course unions may well have out lived their usefulness, but all them union guys that work at the offices get paid the same or better than than the guys who actually work. Like the ceo of gm would get behind a microphone and tell the press that any 5 ceos total payout is more than any issue with the uaw, that out sourcing all their parts, and investing outside our borders may not have been such a good idea? Maybe they will even make an electric car without a gasoline engine for back up? Lazy and greedy, go see: government and big business. Biggest issue, common sense does not always make good profits, on paper or graphs. And common sense, they do not teach that class at college.

You had a chance to explain how the UAW can help GM and Chrysler out of this mess. Instead, you decided to play the blame game and coincidently leave out the UAW..........hmmmmm....how convenient. Unbeknownst to you, there is a giant elephant in the living room that shows a "MAJOR" difference in the total hourly cost of a GM/Chrysler/Ford employee compared to that of a Toyota employee, yet you would like to blame outsourcing, investing outside borders, and CEO payout, yet conveniently forget the disparity in total hourly cost.

You have fallen into the hands of your union and democratic party exactly as they would have hoped. Instead of rational based thinking, the unions/dems have used "emotional" based thinking to their advantage, and you fell hook, line, and sinker!

Before I finish, let me say that you are correct with one of your comments. You are correct by saying that "common sense is not learned in college". Unfortunately, it appears as though most "unions" don't teach it either.

If I'm wrong, please explain how GM and Chrysler can compete with Toyota considering that they have such a difference in the hourly cost per person.

Cheers!

 

[_JOE_]

If I'm wrong, please explain how GM and Chrysler can compete with Toyota considering that they have such a difference in the hourly cost per person.

They cannot, this is what's unfolding now.

Unless you could lower the cost of employee related expenses (healthcare, comp., etc) for the employer or take from the employees.

 

[_JOE_]

We don't have any Toyota employees on DRN?

 

[Patman]

We don't have any Toyota employees on DRN?

I bet there are but they are too busy making a better mousetrap instead of trying to make the same old crap look new with advertising.