Honda CR 125 1998 sky high idle (with video)

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0
Hi everyone,
I have recently bought a Honda CR 125 year 1998 and from the very beginning faced some serious problem. To start with, I bought this bike on Ebay . I was told that this bike was parked in a garage for a year or so before I bought it. I bought it not running. I didn’t know the condition of engine so before trying to start it I did a few things: put a new air filter, thoroughly cleaned the carb and all jets, put a new spark plug, took out the engine and rebuilt the top end with OEM Honda piston kit, filled tank with fresh fuel, filled gearbox with fresh oil.

A few more remarks:
1)I found a lot of dirt when took off the flywheel cover for the first time.
2)I didn’t change the head gasket when rebuilding top end. It looked absolutely perfect.
3)I haven’t had an MX before so I can’t compare, but the kickstarter moves really easy, I can move it all the way with my bare hand quite easily. Today I will ask one mechanic to test compression.
4)Many times checked throttle cable, it is not sticking anywhere.
5)Reassembled carb for second time, jets are clean, bowls moving freely.
6)Rubber boot between carb and cylinder has no cracks in it.

And the problem is:
When assembled everything back, I had to kick it about 30 times to start it and when it started, the idle RPMs went sky high at once and never dropped, it was shattering and running full throttle. A lot of white smoke came from exhaust can and exhaust manifold was covered in black oil. It’s quite hard to tell, but it seems to be like gearbox oil rather than premix. I use Motul fully synthetic premix oil and it has some nice smell. I shut it off after a few seconds and tried to start it again. Now it started from the first kick but sky high RPMs and smoke was here again. I tried to adjust idle RPMs on the carb in all possible ways and it made no difference. Some fuel spilled on the ground from carb vent hose.

Here is a video of my problem with two photos in the end of video: in youtube search field paste " Honda CR 125 1998 sky high idle. How to solve it? " and choose the first video, length 41 second. It doesn't allow me to post a link.

As I understand, the problem is probably an air leak. I didn’t change a topend gasket when rebuilding topend but it seems to be perfect. I changed the cylinder base gasket, torqued evertything really well, base gasket looks absolutely dry so visually it is not leaking. It could be crankshaft seal at the flywheel side. I put on flywheel cover with fresh rubber gasket and some sealer and I think that very little air could be sucked through this cover and crankshaft seal to the inside of engine. Could it cause such high RPMs?

All in all, two short questions:
1)What could cause such sky high RPMs with no throttle?
2)It was a new piston kit, so it went almost full throttle and probably with lean fuel mix with no break in. I started my bike about 8 times for not more than 10 seconds. Will I have to rebuild the top end with new parts or will this piston be still usable?

This is my first MX, so I would really appreciate your help :nod:

ISSUE SOLVED!:
Ok, I feel quite silly now. It turned out to be throttle cable at fault. I don't know how could that happen, but throttle cable was too short. I adjusted both cable adjusters all the way in to loosen the cable and it was still too tight. The slide in the carb never closed. I thought that the slide must be open a bit but it turns out that it must be fully closed. I disconnected the cable at the throttle tube, the slide fully closed and now the bike starts easily and doesn't rev by itself.

Next issue - smoking. I took off right side cover and found that the right crank seal has jumped out of it's place. So now I want to replace it. However, manual says to fit it as deep as was the old seal. But as the old seal is out of it's place, I don't know hoe deep should I seat it. Does it have to be flat with the case surface or does it have to go deeper? How could I find out that?

Also, manual says only to grease the inner perimeter of the seal on right side crank seal, and on the left side, it says to oil the outer perimeter and to grease the inner. Why is there a difference? I believe that the outside perimeter should be left clean in order to sit it tight in the place.

And thank you everyone for the help :)
 
Last edited:

_JOE_

~SPONSOR~
May 10, 2007
4,697
3
Never, ever, reuse a gasket. They are super cheap.

Find someone with a leakdown kit. You can find the leak with that.
 

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0
I didn't take off the head, I just loosened the head bolts a bit and then torqued them down again. So I left the old gasket, it's metal so more durable.

Is there some easy way to check if the left side crank seal is not leaking?

Here in Lithuania it will be very hard to find a special tool for leak test. I will probably have to make one myself, but it will cost and will take a lot of dayd to find the proper parts and build it properly.

It is spitting oil from exhaust manifold, so I believe that right side crank seal is bad for sure, isn't it?
 

_JOE_

~SPONSOR~
May 10, 2007
4,697
3
Any dampness around the seal behind the flywheel is a good indication it is leaking.

The excessive smoking is probably burning tranny oil or possibly coolant. Are either of these fluids low?
 

helio lucas

~SPONSOR~
Jun 20, 2007
1,020
0
take your cluch cover and take the clutch off, then start the engine an spray carb cleaner to the seal while the engine is running... if it alters the speed, you have a leak...
in my ipinion a normal leak in any place will no cause that high rpm... it has to be the thottle... the slide valve on the carb is mounted backwards? or the cable has no free play...
 

CR4Life

Member
Jan 26, 2009
2
0
be sure that the gasket seated back down the right way after you re-tightend the head bolts.... you will have to disassemble the head again and check to see if the gasket is pinched...the same thing happend to a friend of mine and it was blowing straight white smoke....not sure about the high idle tho...
 

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0
_JOE_ said:
Any dampness around the seal behind the flywheel is a good indication it is leaking.

The excessive smoking is probably burning tranny oil or possibly coolant. Are either of these fluids low?

Yes, the tranny oil is burning for sure as the oil level has decreased quite much. I had to refill the tranny just after a few such short start ups. So it is probably sucking oil through crank seal or case gasket. I hope it will be crank seal.
 

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0

Tomorrow I will post a few pics of my carb. I don't think that it's slide's fault, it can be put in the carb only in one way, the other way it just doesn't fit.
 

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0
Thank you guys for the help, I will go tomorrow to check the carb and head gasket. If that won't change eneything, then I will order crank seals. They should be changed anyway. I will post more pics and tell the results soon.
 

DomasMX

Member
Apr 16, 2009
21
0
ISSUE SOLVED:
Ok, I feel quite silly now. It turned out to be throttle cable at fault. I don't know how could that happen, but throttle cable was too short. I adjusted both cable adjusters all the way in to loosen the cable and it was still too tight. The slide in the carb never closed. I thought that the slide must be open a bit but it turns out that it must be fully closed. I disconnected the cable at the throttle tube, the slide fully closed and now the bike starts easily and doesn't rev by itself.

Next issue - smoking. I took off right side cover and found that the right crank seal has jumped out of it's place. So now I want to replace it. However, manual says to fit it as deep as was the old seal. But as the old seal is out of it's place, I don't know hoe deep should I seat it. Does it have to be flat with the case surface or does it have to go deeper? How could I find out that?

Also, manual says only to grease the inner perimeter of the seal on right side crank seal, and on the left side, it says to oil the outer perimeter and to grease the inner. Why is there a difference? I believe that the outside perimeter should be left clean in order to sit it tight in the place.

And thank you everyone for the help :)
 

2strokerfun

Member
May 19, 2006
1,500
1
I don't recommend reusing a head gasket, but I've had to do it many times in my life. IF this is a copper head gasket, heat it up good and hot with a propane torch (while off the engine) then drop it in a bowl of cool water while it's really hot. This will anneal the copper and make it soft and reusable. Don't do this for a head gasket that is not copper or it will do the opposite and make it brittle and breakable. [Technically, you can skip the water part and let it cool by itself --it's really the heat that anneals the copper--but I learned by dropping it in water to cool quickly and it's marginally faster than letting it cool by air (copper cools damn fast by itself), so that's what I've always done.]
But don't do this just to save a few bucks, only do it if you absolutely can't get a new head gasket in time for whatever important event is on the horizon.
 

helio lucas

~SPONSOR~
Jun 20, 2007
1,020
0
i am not a expert but when comes to steel, to aneal it (softer) needs to cool slowly and to temper (harder) it needs to cool quickly
 
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