If you've got kids and computer, better read this!

joe28kdx

Member
Sep 28, 2001
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I'm putting this on all the forums I visit as a call a warning!
Here's my sad tale;
Last Feb. my oldest son, (14 at the time), desided to visit some porn sites on my home computer. He signed on as a guest using his mother account to get @ the blocks I have on my account for him.
During his, "lookie what I see", adventure, it seems he pulled up 6 pictures of girls under the age of 18, thus, "kiddie porn".
Flash ahead to Sept. of '04. We get a knock on the door, it's the local police. They have a search warrant and take all our computers.
A few days later we get another knock, this time they're there for my son!
They take him down and show him the pics and he say he thinks he looked at them, (now remember it's 7 month later and he's your typical teen).
He advised to get a lawyer and me also, (to the tune of $5,000 ).
A few weeks ago we get a letter from Juvinile Probation, he's being charged with 2 felonies,
1. Sexual abuse of a minor, (for looking at the pics).
2, Abuse of a communication device, (the computer).
We go to the first hearing, he pleads guilty, (I teach him not to lie).
What does our legal system do? They take my youngest son away from me and place him with his mother, (now, she's not there, they've no idea of who she is or waht kind of a woman she is), neither myself or my older boy can see him, but I can talk to him on the phone.
The older boy is relaeased into my custudy pending an, "evaulation of myself, my home and him.
As we're leaving the probation officer tells me I got away lucky, she wanted the youngest to be in foster home so we can contact him at all and the older boy, "locked up".
I'm also advised to get my youngest a lawer, (legal fees to date-$8,000 and no end in site).
My older sons lawyer thinks he'll have to do some time for this, (now remember it's a 14 year old and 6 pics).
He was like me, under the idea that the internet provider policed what was on the web and that the only way to see this kind of stuff was to have it E mailed to you.
Everyone is freaked. My youngest cries everytime I call him, hates living with his mother, hates his new school, can't figure out why he has to be away from home, and really I've no clue why.
The older boy is in the pits of depression. We tried to talk, but what can I say to him? I'm having him to a good counseler that we've used before, but it gotta to weighing heavy on his soul.
What I've found out is that Juvinile Probation does not follow any laws. They do what they feel and that's it, no appeals, no talking, nothing, they say this is it and that's it it's in stone.
Word of warning from a very scared parent. If you've got kids and computers, toss the hard drive away, crush the ram chips, put a pass word on the computer and watch over them like a hawk or the next knock could be......
joe
 

Smit-Dog

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What a nightmare.... and if that's the true chain of events, seems like it could happen with most any normal teen-aged boy.

What ever happened to the good old days of just sneaking a peek at your uncle's Playboy.... innocent enough way to dip your adolescent toes in the water. Now it's WAM BAM IN YOUR FACE RAUNCHY HARD-CORE at the first click of the mouse.

Unfortunately it's *way* too easy for kids to find porn on the internet. And if you don't have your computer security and internet filtering set up right (if at all), kids can stumble upon it quite by accident.

I think the law should be that all porn sites must display a plain homepage that requires a credit card to get past.

FWIW, all guest accounts should be deleted on a PC, limited access accounts set up, with admin accounts password protected. In addition, some kind of password protected filtering software should be installed (i.e CyberSitter).

Unfortunately, I would bet that I (or your typical computer-savvy teen) can find porn in under a minute on 90% of family PCs today. :|
 

joe28kdx

Member
Sep 28, 2001
235
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Your right!
But, I've read his charges, YOU CAN ARRESTED for looking at a mag!
I truly believe they can't get the people who put this stuff on, so they make an, "examples" out of anyone they catch.
Stings hard when I go and had to put some clothes in my youngest boys room and find it empty.
I think they have these laws and they work them to the letter, forgetting about whos lives they are ruining serving, "justice".
If they were to take 5 and look at us you'd see we're your average family, not the perverts they think we are. They've no clue who I am or what my life is like, let alone my sons they just, "deside", what's, "best" for us.
I've been told by the computer nerds here at work, (I work at a private high school), that they're can be something attached to your E mail or web site, that you can't see and when you open it the mail or site, the atttached file is also down loaded.
So, really, your computer could be filled with illegal stuff you've no clue of.
Joe
 

gwcrim

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Oct 3, 2002
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Man that's a shame! The legal system can do some pretty underhanded, nasty things when it comes to kids. And they're so self righteous about it.

Good luck. Maybe a letter writing campaign to your elected officials would help.
 

BSWIFT

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You may have to go to Federal Court to get out of this mess. If the "crime" was a result of the "site" for not stopping the underage user then they should have to cover the legal fees, counselors and all. Call your congressman, ASAP.
 

nephron

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Sorry to hear about that. I didn't know a 14 y/o could be prosecuted as a minor for an offense against another minor. ie, you take 2 7-year-olds that get in a fight, one kicks the crap out of the other to the point of breaking bones, etc. with residual damage. Could that kid get attempted manslaughter? Seems to me a 14 y/o shouldn't be held to complete responsibility for something like this (although they did come after you). Maybe he was looking at something a lot younger than 18. And I'm not being insensitive--just trying to sort this out.

Sounds to me like the crime squad's being a little overly aggressive.
 

Bodge

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Oct 4, 2003
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skipro, what do you use to flush your comp? I delete the history, cookies, use spy bot search and destroy to attempt to clean my comp but i feel it dosnt do enough.
 

mxer842

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Nov 11, 2003
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wait hold on...isn't it the person that owns the site's responsibility to make sure all of his "subjects" are of age and if he doesn't announce that they are otherwise then how is a guy to know anyways?? seems to me that they should go after the guy putting this stuff on the internet and not the who stumbled across it.
 

joe28kdx

Member
Sep 28, 2001
235
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Thanks Guys,
I think I'll try the ACLU and see if they can do anything. I think this is too hot a topic for my, "elected officals" to help, The boy did it, it's not like he didn't look at them. :(
As for a minor hurting a minor, in this case it is a crime, "Mr. Law", told me that my son should have realized what he was looking at and then INSTANTLY notified the police-DAAAA, if it isn't in writing, how is a 14 year old suppose to know right from wrong?
I, (and he), when we think of, "kiddy porn" think of , well, little kids, elementry school age.
I can use a computer, can work my way around in the programs I use, but to clean it, I've no clue. I was told that no matter what you do, the memeory of what you looked at is still ther, if only in the background, that we could have cleaned all we want and the State Polce would have found it anyway.
I truly believe that the Juvinile Probation system in this county wheels sooo much power and the lawyers don't deal with juvinile cases that much to know the ins and outs, that they command the court system.
We are guilty until proven innocent and then we're still guilty, "just gpot off lightly"
Thanks again,
Joe
 

BadgerMan

Mi. Trail Riders
Jan 1, 2001
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I was told that no matter what you do, the memeory of what you looked at is still ther, if only in the background, that we could have cleaned all we want and the State Polce would have found it anyway.

I don't believe this is true (correct me if I am wrong). You can take care of most of it via the Tools/Internet Options/General and Content tabs of your MS IE browser. Spyhunter is a good cheap product and will take care of the rest.

However, this story is just unbelievable to me! Heck, the country is full of people surfing the 'net and looking at porn. With regard to the average porn site, there is no way to know if every single person depicted therein is over the age of eighteen. Was he specifically searching for young girls? Otherwise, it would seem that he is more of a victim than a criminal! I can't imagine why the police would single out a curious young kid from the multitudes of surfers.

I had the same issue with my son only WE caught him. He thought he was being sly by deleting the history but he did not think about the fact that both his mother and father make their livings using PC's! LOL! Anyway, I was all prepared to punish him severely when I had flashbacks about hiding in the woods with my friends and a Playboy mag. Instead, we had a talk about growing up, curiosity, and how dangerous the 'net can be.

Good luck and get some good legal help in a hurry!

Guess I gotta go clean up my hard drive! :p
 
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Rannoch

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Dec 4, 2002
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As to the info on the computer:

Your harddrive is written out in strings of 8bits, called a byte. There are two "pointers" on each end of these, that tell where the next byte is located on the hard drive. Any file is on the drive in thousands of this 8 character strings. When you "erase" a file, you're wiping out the two pointer bits. Even though YOU will never find these files on the computer, professional data recovery people CAN. The data remains there untill overwritten by something else. That means it could be there, theoretically, years after you've deleted it. Thats why some programs have stuff like overburn, overwrite, etc. They actually delete the file, and then write nonsense 1's and 0's over the top, so the data is truly gone.

Just to let you know whats up in that respect.
Also, some of my information might be marginally wrong, I dont really remember. But you get the basic idea.

I'm sorry to hear about this, and I hope nobody else has to go through what you have and are going through.
 

Jaybird

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I aint buyin one bit of this.
 
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joe28kdx

Member
Sep 28, 2001
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Why don't you believe it??
My legal counsel has told me how the juvinile system will push and sometimes if you don't push back, they'll plow you down like a starting gate at a national.
There has been a rash of adults being nailed @ here for kiddy porn aduse, I guess my son just got into that pile. I can't see what they get out of it??
I'm the kind of guy that would rather touch than look at! I don't even care for strip bars.
It's scary to think what could be hidden in your computer.
He has told all concerned that he just typed in, "porn" on the search and when all these sites poped up on the list, he just went through them until they ask for a credit card to continue.
If anyone has boys I'd bet you see how from age 14 to 15 they matured so much.
He looks back now and thinks how stupid he was for doing it.
I too told him of myself and a friend sneaking into a his fathers closet and stealing his, "Playboy" and going down to the basement coal storage area and looking at these books!
I've been told it's normal for teens to do and think this.
We're gonna go in there and TRY to get these to a mister meaner, if the court wants him to go to therophy, I'm all for it, just lets not ruin his life for 6 pics!
The hearing is the 10th
Joe
 

Gary B.

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Apr 17, 2000
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Very interesting, Joe! Let us know what happens on the tenth!
 

Smit-Dog

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Keep in mind that ISPs (and your IS department at work!) can log all internet activity at their end. So while you can throw your hard drive in an incinerator and melt it down, there could still be an electronic trail somewhere.

As far as "old-school" teenage boy antics, we built tree forts. 30' off the ground. Completely enclosed. Impossible for adults to climb. And just what do you think we kept up there? :debil:

And Badgerman, your situation could have been easily avoided if you would have let Napper buy Red that subscription to Playboy last year! :laugh:
 

BadgerMan

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Jan 1, 2001
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Smit-Dog said:
Keep in mind that ISPs (and your IS department at work!) can log all internet activity at their end. So while you can throw your hard drive in an incinerator and melt it down, there could still be an electronic trail somewhere.

Yeah, there is always going to be a trail even if your machine is clean.

It’s the legal aspect of this issue that I don’t understand. I must be missing something. Porn has been around as long as there has been printed page. How can you ever be sure that who you are viewing is of legal age? That would be like prosecuting a person for eating brownies after someone else secretly laced them with weed. Who is the criminal and who is the victim. Last time I checked, it was still legal in this country to view sexually explicit material (regardless whether you believe it is morally right to do so).

And who said I did not let Napper buy that subscription to Playboy? I have just been intercepting them before they get to Red! It’s my duty as a father to shelter my son from such filth! :laugh:
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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BadgerMan said:
Last time I checked, it was still legal in this country to view sexually explicit material (regardless whether you believe it is morally right to do so).

I would think that the issue in this case is that the sexually explicit material involves minors. I'm Canadian so I can't say for certain what your laws say but I imagine viewing child pornography is indeed a crime.
 

mxer842

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Nov 11, 2003
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yes but it is the responisbility of the webmaster to insure that his content is legal...if some kid stumbles across a porn site in which not all of the sites girls are of age it is not his fault but the fault of the person that maintains the site...if you are searching for kiddie porn that is one thing but a site where all subjects are implied of age and a few are indeed other wise is not you fault.
 

Okiewan

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Apparently he decided not to leave the post there?
 

BadgerMan

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Jan 1, 2001
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mxer842 said:
yes but it is the responisbility of the webmaster to insure that his content is legal...if some kid stumbles across a porn site in which not all of the sites girls are of age it is not his fault but the fault of the person that maintains the site...if you are searching for kiddie porn that is one thing but a site where all subjects are implied of age and a few are indeed other wise is not you fault.

Bingo!

We're all in trouble if this is not the case! :p
 

Chili

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Apr 9, 2002
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mxer842 said:
yes but it is the responisbility of the webmaster to insure that his content is legal...if some kid stumbles across a porn site in which not all of the sites girls are of age it is not his fault but the fault of the person that maintains the site...if you are searching for kiddie porn that is one thing but a site where all subjects are implied of age and a few are indeed other wise is not you fault.

Unless I misread the original post there is no mention that he came across these pictures on a site where all "models" were implied to be of age. Only that he had 6 pornographic pictures on his pc of minors. In Canada it is my understanding that regardless of how he come into possession of the pictures he would be tried for possession of child pornography.

Another question that comes to mind is under what grounds did the police obtain a search warrant for the pc's? There are many missing pieces to this puzzle.
 
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gowen

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Aug 2, 2000
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Not buyin' it either. Sounds like somebody is trying to prove something, but I'm not sure why. The officer would have to have obtained a warrent by "somebody" and they would have to have 100% proof of that information. Usally, ISP's do not give out any information. Plus, child porn sites are anonymous, as they are illegal, and the ISP would not have much proof of visitation. Like I said, I'm not buying it either. The police would go after the maker of the web or the hosting agent.
 
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