Yep fellas I've had it...... Don't think I can take any more.. Here's a quick history for those who don't know.... Bought an 03 kx250 in great shape (so it seemed). It needed a new clutch basket so I found a used complete clutch assembly on ebay. The basket and plates were in great shape so I put them in and all was well....clutch was perfect. Then one day at the track my bike started smoking really bad with white smoke so I ordered a head gasket, put it on and coolant just poored out the head. So I put the old gasket back on, changed the silencer packing (that was burned up and soaked beyond belief) and drained the gas (that I bummed off someone at the track) and magicaly the majority of the smoke was gone so I took it for a ride down my residential street so I never got out of 2nd gear (plus it was just runnin' crappy) so I parked it and went to put it in neutral to roll it up under the carport and NO NEUTRAL !!!!!!!!! I tried for an hour 1/2 to get it in neutral, but NOPE !!!!! What the hell ???? I'm just sooo freekin' agrivated, I just want to get it good enough to sell cause I'm about done. HELP ME PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm bout to throw in da towel !!!
- Thread starter cowasucky
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2-Strokes 4-ever
~SPONSOR~
Dirtbikes are high maintainence... kinda like a wife/girlfriend.
When I first got into it (many years ago) the parts guy at the local bike shop said some brutal but true words: "You play, you pay." He knew what he was talking about...
When I first got into it (many years ago) the parts guy at the local bike shop said some brutal but true words: "You play, you pay." He knew what he was talking about...
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- #3
2-Strokes 4-ever said:
Well said....... I must say though, I have a wife, a KDX and a YZ and all of them put together haven't been this much trouble. It just seems like I was better off before I ever touched it. It jerked a bit on take off from the notched clutch basket, but that was it. I don't know, I think my pride and confidence has taken the biggest blow cause I don't know if I'm up to tearing the clutch down again and going back through it.....what could it be ??? It's been fine for over a month, it took a long hard ride at the track just days after the rebuild and hasn't been ridden more than 15 minutes since.. I do recall having an extra washer, but I thought perhaps it came from the other kit I'd got the basket ans plates from. I don't know.... I'll leave it for a while and come back to it. I leave for Panama City Beach, Florida on the 26th so maybe when I return I'll have the mindset to deal with it.
When you had the clutch basket off, or the cover for that matter, whats the chance the shift shaft pawl is now out of sequence with the shift drum star? It does happen, do not ask! It would explain the bizarre shifting. You should not need to pull the basket, but the cover has to come off. You are learning.
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- #5
whenfoxforks-ruled said:
Allright you got me going through my manual trying to figure this out. I see the "shift shaft", but not the "shift drum star", or exactly what part is the "pawl". I know it must be frustrating trying to help someone who doesn't know the propper terms, but I apreciate your effort greatly. When I pull the right side cover, do I pull the spring nuts and pressure plate ? What am I lookin' for ? Thanks again !!!
When you pull apart an engine like this, make sure that you have plenty of room to lay out the parts. A 6 foot table is best.. Then as you take things apart, you can segregate the old parts from the new ones. Plus you have a nice clean area to work.
I tend to never throw away old parts until the new ones are in the bike. It just helps my own mental health to know that the new one is working..
Also, take pictures along the way so that you can see how things go back together.
So.. about the shifter. If you follow the shaft thru the engine (mentally, you don't have to take it apart), you will see that it has a mechanism on the clutch side of the engine with a spring on it. so that when you push the lever, it returns.
At the end opposite the shaft, of that mechanism there is a pawl that moves the shift drum. This is what turns inside the trans that moves the shift forks. (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmo...1-2003-gear-change-mechanism/o/m3816sch292206)
(http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmo...gear-change-drum-shift-forks/o/m3816sch293002)
Make sure that the shifter is moving the shift drum.. You will see it when you have the clutch cover off. and try to move the lever... You may have to move the rear wheel at the same time to get the gearbox to move..
Also look at the parts fiche on bikebandit for the clutch, that will show you the blow up of the clutch, to make sure you have the washers in the right spot.
There is a thick washer that goes between the basket and the bearing in the case.. If you don't have that one in place, you could have a binding between parts in the clutch area. It'd probably make a considerable amount of noise too.
I also have to ask why you put the old head gasket back in? That head gasket is not reusable. Once you torque the head, that head gasket is done. If you take the head back off, you need to replace it. From what I can see, it only goes on one way. Is it possible that you put the new one on upside down?
If you aren't sure which way to install a new head gasket on that bike, ask a mechanic at your local Kawi shop to show you.. Although most of them come with a mark to show you which side goes up.
That could account for your white smoke.
If I was you, I'd pull the clutch back apart, and make 100% certain that all of the parts are installed and in the right order.
At the least, take some pictures and post them here and we should be able to help you identify the proper order.
There have been many times I've wanted to give it all up over something like this, but remember it's just a simple machine, if it's not working as expected, there's a reason. And there is someone on here that should be able to help you identify that problem.
Don't let it beat you.
I tend to never throw away old parts until the new ones are in the bike. It just helps my own mental health to know that the new one is working..
Also, take pictures along the way so that you can see how things go back together.
So.. about the shifter. If you follow the shaft thru the engine (mentally, you don't have to take it apart), you will see that it has a mechanism on the clutch side of the engine with a spring on it. so that when you push the lever, it returns.
At the end opposite the shaft, of that mechanism there is a pawl that moves the shift drum. This is what turns inside the trans that moves the shift forks. (http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmo...1-2003-gear-change-mechanism/o/m3816sch292206)
(http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmo...gear-change-drum-shift-forks/o/m3816sch293002)
Make sure that the shifter is moving the shift drum.. You will see it when you have the clutch cover off. and try to move the lever... You may have to move the rear wheel at the same time to get the gearbox to move..
Also look at the parts fiche on bikebandit for the clutch, that will show you the blow up of the clutch, to make sure you have the washers in the right spot.
There is a thick washer that goes between the basket and the bearing in the case.. If you don't have that one in place, you could have a binding between parts in the clutch area. It'd probably make a considerable amount of noise too.
I also have to ask why you put the old head gasket back in? That head gasket is not reusable. Once you torque the head, that head gasket is done. If you take the head back off, you need to replace it. From what I can see, it only goes on one way. Is it possible that you put the new one on upside down?
If you aren't sure which way to install a new head gasket on that bike, ask a mechanic at your local Kawi shop to show you.. Although most of them come with a mark to show you which side goes up.
That could account for your white smoke.
If I was you, I'd pull the clutch back apart, and make 100% certain that all of the parts are installed and in the right order.
At the least, take some pictures and post them here and we should be able to help you identify the proper order.
There have been many times I've wanted to give it all up over something like this, but remember it's just a simple machine, if it's not working as expected, there's a reason. And there is someone on here that should be able to help you identify that problem.
Don't let it beat you.
It may be behind the basket. In the end of the shift drum is a ratchet device(13078). The trans needs to be in neutral, you will need to disengage the shifter shaft(13161), from the ratchet. With the trans in neutral, the ratchet centered and facing the shaft, there should be 2 marks that line up, on most, otherwise it just needs to be in centered and in sequence. Then push the shift shaft into place. Then the trans is set properly. That pawl on the end of the shaft moves over an eight of an inch, and it can slip out of sequence. It will shift weird.
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- #8
Thanks ! Very helpful !!! I still have the old clutch w/all it's parts put away in a box ( I never throw parts away ). I will tear it down tommorow.....not only do I love to ride them, but I'm very interested in mods & repair so I'm not quitting. I was just having a small pitty party. As far as the head goes, there are different thicknesses right ? I put the new one on (it had the " EX " on the tab to show which way faced up) and torqued it down correctly. I refilled the coolant and left for a few hours. When I returned, coolant had began to seep out from around the head.. I checked thr torque and it was correct. I put the old gasket back on to see if maybe I somehow damaged the head in the proccess, to see if coolant seeped from the old gasket too but it didn't. It actually smokes less than before I started ( ofcourse I put in fresh fuel and a fresh silencer packing ), but I ordered 2 new gaskets that will be here any day. A friend that I ride with said to try using 2 new gaskets at once. Ever heard of that ? Would that cause lower compression. ?
2strokerfun
Member
- May 19, 2006
- 1,500
- 1
I wouldn't put two head gaskets on. Yes it will lower compression. Also cause leaks.
I think this will be something you look back on and say "man that was an easy but frustrating fix!"
As far as that head gasket... I had a similar situation on my old CR. make sure you pull all the studs and clean the thread on the stud and in the head. it can really f UP your torque specs. Also as mentioned make sure the gasket is on right.
Before you start torquing the head down. Tighten it slightly by hand and then give it a good rap with a rubber mallet or the wooden end of a hammer to make is seat fully. Then torque to the specs.
I didn't have mine fully seated and it leaked coolant!
As far as that head gasket... I had a similar situation on my old CR. make sure you pull all the studs and clean the thread on the stud and in the head. it can really f UP your torque specs. Also as mentioned make sure the gasket is on right.
Before you start torquing the head down. Tighten it slightly by hand and then give it a good rap with a rubber mallet or the wooden end of a hammer to make is seat fully. Then torque to the specs.
I didn't have mine fully seated and it leaked coolant!
helio lucas
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- Jun 20, 2007
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my advice is: pull the cylinder and the head, lap them in some fine emery cloth (400-800) in a flat surface, like a glass,to be sure that the surfaces are flat!!! most likely , they aren´t after so much play with... :nod:
and no 2 gaskets...
about the neutral, will you be able to put it with the engine off? or just with the engine running?
if it´s with the engine on and the bike still is the cluch that drags for some reason. off and it´s not the clutch.
could you post some pictures of the head and cylinder? :cool:
and no 2 gaskets...
about the neutral, will you be able to put it with the engine off? or just with the engine running?
if it´s with the engine on and the bike still is the cluch that drags for some reason. off and it´s not the clutch.
could you post some pictures of the head and cylinder? :cool:
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- #13
I mentioned before the backfire when trying to start it while in gear and the clutch in. I can't get it in neutral, but the clutch works fine. I can pull the clutch in and roll it from point A to B. The clutch feels good and worked perfectly on my last ride. All I did was go up the street and back in 2nd and when I got it home and killed it, it's never had neutral again. I have noticed a rattling coming from the case so I gues I'm going in to find these pawls. I apreciate any and all guidence. As far as pictures..... I'm using my blackberry to go online and can't get it to download pics, but the studs on the cylinder were quite rusty lookin' so I'll take em out and clean em good. First, I'm going in this left side to see what I can find. Wish me luck !!!
Mad Norris
Member
- May 1, 2009
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When I read "white smoke", my first thought was a blown main seal on the wet (clutch) side. This would also explain the backfires. Is your spark plug oily, with black carbon build up?
If it is the crank seal, you'll need to split the crankcases to replace it :(.
If it is the crank seal, you'll need to split the crankcases to replace it :(.
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- #15
Mad Norris said:
I hear what you're sayin.....but it's never backfired before. It always smoked it just got worse after my last ride when I ran it out of gas, bummed a couple gallons at the track and that's when it got really bad. Since I drained that gas and refueled the smoking got a lot better. I think this new gasket will help after hearing how putting on a previously torqued gasket is not such a good idea. Now it's like my bike is stuck inbetween gears or somthin' (I don't know)......I couldn't get it to start or go in neutral yesterday and today it backfired one quick, loud shot when I kicked it so I stopped.. Somthing is loose in that left side I could hear it before and now I just have to find it I geuss.....
Mad Norris
Member
- May 1, 2009
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You should only ever see blue smoke from a 2 stroke, as it's only meant to burn 2-stroke oil. White smoke means a problem (unless the gas you borrowed was mixed with gearbox oil).
The stuck gears and rattle don't sound too good, It could be that the crank bearing is gone and you're hearing bits of it rattle around inside, in which case I wouldn't advise trying to start it.
I honestly don't think a new gasket will make any difference (it certainly won't fix the neutral issue). I'd strip that engine down and find the root of the problem before any more damage is done.
The stuck gears and rattle don't sound too good, It could be that the crank bearing is gone and you're hearing bits of it rattle around inside, in which case I wouldn't advise trying to start it.
I honestly don't think a new gasket will make any difference (it certainly won't fix the neutral issue). I'd strip that engine down and find the root of the problem before any more damage is done.
I'd suggest just replacing the head studs.. They're not too expensive, and a good idea.
When you try to shift into neutral, does the shift lever move at all?
Please explain how you came to this conclusion? I don't get it at all.
When you try to shift into neutral, does the shift lever move at all?
mad norris said:
Please explain how you came to this conclusion? I don't get it at all.
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- #18
IndyMX said:
Indi, yes it shifts through all gears. I pulled the clutch cover off and the hub, then removed the push rod and put it all back together and it went right into neutral smooth as silk. I don't know what the hell !!!!!! It's too late to start it up here.... I'll have a half dozen cop cars at my house. I'll crank er up tommorow and let ya know. Oh... And right on with the studs, I'll order some tonight !
Mad Norris
Member
- May 1, 2009
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- 0
If rhe right crank bearing goes, then small pieces of shell can get caught in the gearshift pawl, clutch basket, between the crank and clutch gears, etc.IndyMX said:
If the 2 detentes on the shift drum have issues, you will never catch neutral. Or the sequence between the star and shift shaft. White smoke is almost always anti freeze/water, not oil. Do not forget new nuts for the new studs. And, what Helio stated, check the head and top of the cylinder for being flat. You can check the main bearings by trying to move the crank ends up and down.
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- #23
Today was a good day !!!! I had ordered 2 head gaskets so I had an extra. So here's what I did..... I pulled the studs and soaked them in Navel Jelly for about 2hrs and they were like new again. I screwed 'em back in. I taped some 400 sandpaper to an old bathroom mirror and rubbed the head in a figure 8 to make sure it was flat and it surprisingly looked damn good. So I put the gasket on, took my time carefully torquing the head down as close to perfect as I'm capable of doing, put everything back together and filled her up with coolant. I waited for an hour or so to see if coolant would seep out like last time, but it didn't. So I rolled her out to the street and kicked her off and I'll be damned if I saw 2 maybe 3 quick puffs of smoke and that was it !!!! It rode better than ever and no smoke. As far as why it wouldn't go in neutral..... I don't know ???? But it hasn't done it again, however I'll continue to investigate. Thanks for everything !!!! You guys kept me sane and moving forward...... Thanks again !!!!!
helio lucas
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- Jun 20, 2007
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good news... :cool:
now, ride it!
now, ride it!
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