- Jun 15, 2001
- 2,552
- 0
I'm putting this here because it's not exactly a nutrition/training topic, and many more farmers on this site will see it here (a la srellis :) ) I spent about 45 minutes doing the research to respond to his question, so I figured I might want to copy the email I sent him, and post it here. If anyone knows better than what I've written, let me know. I'd like to know more as well.
My father and I live about 24 mi apart out here. He's still farming south of Lakin, KS where I grew up. He called me yesterday, saying that my cousin (Titus, below) wasn't feeling well after spending 12 plus straight hours on a CASE 2670 (one of my old rods :thumb: ). Let's just say that my dad, well, er...puts repairs off as long as possible and uses...a LOT of duct tape. ;) Furthermore, he's FAMOUS for it. :scream: (Look, we won't even talk about how, on this same tractor, he last week used congealed (heated) Teflon tape sucked directly into the combustion chamber to seal a head gasket leak. And it worked! :eek: ("it'll work--it'll go down the path of least resistance during combustion and will be directed straight to the leak")) We'll just say he's smart AND crazy at the same time--not an optimal combination.
This tractor, being maintained as such, suffers from many, many ailments, some of which are:
Okay, other points: maybe the acid boils over, landing on the CASE siderails, which are raw by now, no paint (important point). We're talking about H2SO4 on rotted steel here, (below).
He called, wanting to know if H2S could be formed by these batteries in any way, and could this be the cause of his illness. For those that don't know a farmer--they are easily the smartest (I'm not just saying that) people you'll ever meet--they're chemists, physicists, mechanics, engineers, artists, growers, planters, cultivators, biologists, veterinarians, mathematicians, ...you get the point. At any rate, I did a brief search, and this is the email I sent him. I felt it should be seen elsewhere as well:
Info on H2S
Dad, this is what I gleaned from several resources:
Merck Index: H2S is produced by reacting dilute sulfuric acid (H2SO4-) with iron sulfide (FeS) = ferrous sulfide, reacting hydrogen and sulfur in vapor phase, or by heating sulfur with paraffin. Of course, FeS grabs your attention quickly, since it is listed as being present 'naturally' as a magnetkies, pyrrhotine, or troillite. It is otherwise just listed as being 'prepped from the elements', but I'd bet there's some to be found on a CASE tractor siderail.
The only lead-and H2S relationship I could find is the reaction that occurs when aqueous sodium sulfide (Na2S) is used to detect inorganic lead: the addition of Na2S to PbO2 turns an identifying brown color and emits H2S as a product of the rxn (H* would come from H2O). This is a field test for identifying Pb on the hands of battery handlers at factories.
H2S is found wherever the anaerobic putrefaction (bacterial) of sulfur containing proteinaceous (biol.) material occurs; It's also found in sulfur springs and lakes and in mines extending through sulfurous rock.
It is both an irritant and asphyxiant. Locally, it irritates the mucous membranes of the eyes and respiratory tract. Systemically, it affects the central nervous system and may cause paralysis of the respiratory center which usually results in death, if exposures are great enough. As an asphyxiant, it basically causes the 'unbinding' of Oxygen from hemoglobin by forming complexes with the ferric heme groups of methemoglobin in a 1 to 1 stoichiometry. As an irritant, it acts as a directly toxic agent by basically stealing electrons, so to speak, from various biochemical reactions and cell wall proteins, which leads to abrupt discontinuation of cellular processes and alteration of protein enzyme conformation and function.
It's an extreme electron donor, becomes oxidized rapidly in normal environments (including the human body) where it is sequentially oxidized, and can be excreted as free or conjugated sulfate.
Toxicity occurs in workers in the oil, gas, petrochemical workers,sewer workers, chemical plant employees, farmers (petrochemical exposure only), shale-oil workers, and laboratory attendants.
Battery poisonings fall primarily into the category of Pb (lead) and other heavy metal poisoning and acid exposure (below), and occurs mainly in battery production facilities, auto manufacturing workforce, etc. Furthermore, Arsine and Stibine (Antimony) apparently coexist with Pb in these batteries, and Arsenic and Stibine poisoning have been reported in many production plants. Specifically, the likelihood of airborn heavy metal exposure is greatest during electrical formation, when lead/arsenic alloy comes in contact with sulfuric acid. Lead, Antimony and Arsenic airborn poisoning is possible, if not likely with Titus, due to the enclosed, unventilated environment.
Acid exposure: A GM Health Hazard Evaluation found that workers in recharging plants suffered from respiratory and irritative illness due to vaporized sulfuric acid. Obviously, the risk of this is greatest when the battery is being OVERCHARGED and boiling over, where airborn acid exposure is referred to as mist exposure, and detected by 'cascade impactors', for whatever it's worth.
Overall, I'd have to say the most likely causative agent(s) would be carbon monoxide, acid mist (H2SO4), airborn heavy metal (Pb,Stibine, Arsenic) and less likely H2S (although possible). A possible scenario would be a combination of air lead, air sulfuric acid, H2S (from sulfuric acid and FeS on the siderail) and carbon monoxide altogether.
You've got to keep in mind that lead workers in battery plants have well-vented facilities and don't overcharge the piss out of batteries, yet are frequently removed from their jobs when their blood Pb levels exceed a certain number.
At the peak of his illness, he would have needed to have gone in for an arterial blood gas with carboxyhemoglobin test, and a Pb level. If you just wanted to see if it was Pb itself, he could drop off a urine heavy metal screen.
For now, I highly recommend that you put on some gloves, dispose of the current batteries, clean the area up, and put in some good batteries. It may be expensive, but think about the risk. The longterm effects of these exposures, particularly the heavy metals, is another long, long story.
Jack
My father and I live about 24 mi apart out here. He's still farming south of Lakin, KS where I grew up. He called me yesterday, saying that my cousin (Titus, below) wasn't feeling well after spending 12 plus straight hours on a CASE 2670 (one of my old rods :thumb: ). Let's just say that my dad, well, er...puts repairs off as long as possible and uses...a LOT of duct tape. ;) Furthermore, he's FAMOUS for it. :scream: (Look, we won't even talk about how, on this same tractor, he last week used congealed (heated) Teflon tape sucked directly into the combustion chamber to seal a head gasket leak. And it worked! :eek: ("it'll work--it'll go down the path of least resistance during combustion and will be directed straight to the leak")) We'll just say he's smart AND crazy at the same time--not an optimal combination.
This tractor, being maintained as such, suffers from many, many ailments, some of which are:
- no A/C
- Hot, no cab ventilation--windows won't open?
- Exhaust leak, above and below stack exit (no doubt filling the cab with CO)
- Dead batteries--require jump-starting every time
- Therefore, dead batteries pull amps during tractor operation (excessively)
- Therefore, dead batteries are OVERCHARGED during operation, at least somewhat due to PbSO4 bridging, etc.
- Therefore, batteries BOIL OVER during operation--the whole time
- Been there. Done THAT.
- Other problems we won't talk about
Okay, other points: maybe the acid boils over, landing on the CASE siderails, which are raw by now, no paint (important point). We're talking about H2SO4 on rotted steel here, (below).
He called, wanting to know if H2S could be formed by these batteries in any way, and could this be the cause of his illness. For those that don't know a farmer--they are easily the smartest (I'm not just saying that) people you'll ever meet--they're chemists, physicists, mechanics, engineers, artists, growers, planters, cultivators, biologists, veterinarians, mathematicians, ...you get the point. At any rate, I did a brief search, and this is the email I sent him. I felt it should be seen elsewhere as well:
Info on H2S
Dad, this is what I gleaned from several resources:
Merck Index: H2S is produced by reacting dilute sulfuric acid (H2SO4-) with iron sulfide (FeS) = ferrous sulfide, reacting hydrogen and sulfur in vapor phase, or by heating sulfur with paraffin. Of course, FeS grabs your attention quickly, since it is listed as being present 'naturally' as a magnetkies, pyrrhotine, or troillite. It is otherwise just listed as being 'prepped from the elements', but I'd bet there's some to be found on a CASE tractor siderail.
The only lead-and H2S relationship I could find is the reaction that occurs when aqueous sodium sulfide (Na2S) is used to detect inorganic lead: the addition of Na2S to PbO2 turns an identifying brown color and emits H2S as a product of the rxn (H* would come from H2O). This is a field test for identifying Pb on the hands of battery handlers at factories.
H2S is found wherever the anaerobic putrefaction (bacterial) of sulfur containing proteinaceous (biol.) material occurs; It's also found in sulfur springs and lakes and in mines extending through sulfurous rock.
It is both an irritant and asphyxiant. Locally, it irritates the mucous membranes of the eyes and respiratory tract. Systemically, it affects the central nervous system and may cause paralysis of the respiratory center which usually results in death, if exposures are great enough. As an asphyxiant, it basically causes the 'unbinding' of Oxygen from hemoglobin by forming complexes with the ferric heme groups of methemoglobin in a 1 to 1 stoichiometry. As an irritant, it acts as a directly toxic agent by basically stealing electrons, so to speak, from various biochemical reactions and cell wall proteins, which leads to abrupt discontinuation of cellular processes and alteration of protein enzyme conformation and function.
It's an extreme electron donor, becomes oxidized rapidly in normal environments (including the human body) where it is sequentially oxidized, and can be excreted as free or conjugated sulfate.
Toxicity occurs in workers in the oil, gas, petrochemical workers,sewer workers, chemical plant employees, farmers (petrochemical exposure only), shale-oil workers, and laboratory attendants.
Battery poisonings fall primarily into the category of Pb (lead) and other heavy metal poisoning and acid exposure (below), and occurs mainly in battery production facilities, auto manufacturing workforce, etc. Furthermore, Arsine and Stibine (Antimony) apparently coexist with Pb in these batteries, and Arsenic and Stibine poisoning have been reported in many production plants. Specifically, the likelihood of airborn heavy metal exposure is greatest during electrical formation, when lead/arsenic alloy comes in contact with sulfuric acid. Lead, Antimony and Arsenic airborn poisoning is possible, if not likely with Titus, due to the enclosed, unventilated environment.
Acid exposure: A GM Health Hazard Evaluation found that workers in recharging plants suffered from respiratory and irritative illness due to vaporized sulfuric acid. Obviously, the risk of this is greatest when the battery is being OVERCHARGED and boiling over, where airborn acid exposure is referred to as mist exposure, and detected by 'cascade impactors', for whatever it's worth.
Overall, I'd have to say the most likely causative agent(s) would be carbon monoxide, acid mist (H2SO4), airborn heavy metal (Pb,Stibine, Arsenic) and less likely H2S (although possible). A possible scenario would be a combination of air lead, air sulfuric acid, H2S (from sulfuric acid and FeS on the siderail) and carbon monoxide altogether.
You've got to keep in mind that lead workers in battery plants have well-vented facilities and don't overcharge the piss out of batteries, yet are frequently removed from their jobs when their blood Pb levels exceed a certain number.
At the peak of his illness, he would have needed to have gone in for an arterial blood gas with carboxyhemoglobin test, and a Pb level. If you just wanted to see if it was Pb itself, he could drop off a urine heavy metal screen.
For now, I highly recommend that you put on some gloves, dispose of the current batteries, clean the area up, and put in some good batteries. It may be expensive, but think about the risk. The longterm effects of these exposures, particularly the heavy metals, is another long, long story.
Jack
