Magazine Shootouts

[ktmboy]

I guess the thing that bothers me the most about magazine bike tests is that it seems like sometimes they make a mountain out of a molehill in some cases, but they'll overlook a major flaw in other cases for whatever motive it is that they have.
I agree that all of the bikes being built today are very good, and the things that influence me are: does the bike fit my style; am I going to be able to ride it just as it comes off of the showroom floor; if not, how much extra will I have to spend; which model will have the best 'fun factor' for me; and etc.

 

[WILDTHANG]

I think a lot of it has to do with how each manufacturer preps and tunes their bike for the shootout. I watched the video clip of the shootout on Bike Week last Tuesday and frankly the KTM Rep was not very good, He said: " Well the bike is completely new this year and It would be easier to tell you what we didn't change. It still has the hydraulic clutch." And then you had the Honda Team of Guys with their tractor trailer race shop on wheels, working their bike over, fine tuning it and test riders saying "well I liked the Yamaha the 1st day, but after the Honda got dialed in, it became my favorite bike." Any bike with a solid frame and strong motor can be dialed in to perform. What I would like to see is a out of crate with no manufacturer representation test shootout, followed up by a mild built up test shootout. KTM would always win the out of crate comparison. Does anyone actually remember the fact that in 1999 the 250sx won the shootout, although everyone was big on buying YZ250s. I had (2) buddys that bought 99 YZ250s and their bikes did not stack up next to my 99 250sx. Both bikes delivered similar long smooth powerbands, but the 250sx could pull away topend (with both bikes stock). After riding my bike the one guy upgraded his brakes with SS brake lines and oversized rotors, because he loved the 250sx brakes and could not believe how spongy his brakes were after he got back on his YZ. I thought it was funny because, they paid more for their YZs, because of their popularity and then dumped more money into their bikes to make them better. 250sx over the YZ250: Hydraulic clutch, Better brakes, Real handlebars, Sturdy good performing nickle pipe, gripper seat, Aluminum subframe, frame guards, etc. All I had to do is buy a needle and have the suspension set up for me. I hope the guys I ride with stay on the jap bikes, I'll take the edge (actually at least half of them have aready converted). I don't care what DR or MXA says, I'm still getting my 03 250sx and after suspension dial in, I'll have A Works caliber bike for a $6000 price tag.

 

[luvtolean]

As an "outsider", I think the mags are portraying KTM's pretty well. They always rave about the motor, and the detailing of the bikes. But they don't like the "feel". That's subjective, but it is important. Racers can be conservative people. Why would they want to change to the KTM feel, when the Japanese feel has worked out so well for them their whole life? Friends of mine who MX all say KTM does have poor stock suspension set-up, so that seems to be true.

For me one of the most important factors for buying a bike is the local dealer. This came from owning an RM 125, in a town with a horrible Suzuki dealer. I will never do that again. I'm going to modify the suspension and everything anyway, so that's not too important to me. But if the prick at the parts counter refuses to order me a linkage bolt because it's too hard to get a microfiche out (it's a dated example, I know) what good does having the best bike do me? My friends all work at a Honda dealer, that's the main reason I own a CR250. It also means we can swap spares if a part breaks.

 

[Kerry Shane]

Guys after reading all of your esponses so far I must say you all have great answers for the original question. BUT the purpose of the articles is to Communicate-educate-provide insight and above all stimulate your thinking process and to that end I think they have suceeded. Just my two cents

 

[Patman]

Actually the purpose of the magazines doing these types of articles is to sell ad space and sell magazines which makes them money. ;)

 

[geremacheks]

And to sell magazines, they need a readership. And to get that, they need to be, for the most part, fair and honest, or it's not going to happen. (As you get glimpses here in this forum, sometimes the readers seem to be smarter, or act smarter, than the mag test editors.......Is the reader going to be fooled?)

Also, to get motorcycle companies to play the magazine's game, the mags need to be fair and honest again. A company like KTM doesn't have to provide bikes to be tested by the mags if they feel the mags are not playing with equal rules. Sure, the mags could still test the bikes if they get them on their own, but I'm sure a company that felt it was being handled unfairly, would protest loudly in such an event.

 

[cp380sx]

Most readers demand shoot-outs. This demand sells magazines which in turn sells advertising. As stated before, very few people get a chance to ride more than one bike. The magazine tests are the only medium where an experienced rider has the opportunity to ride various bike brands back to back. I purchased my KTM because the magazines said taller riders are most comfortable on them. I did not buy a shoot out winning YZ250 because the magazines all said that taller riders felt cramped on them. The reader gets to decide what criteria is important to them before they commit to purchasing a bike.

Also, unless nobody has noticed, KTM is advertising heavily in print and on TV. So this argument that a lack of advertising budget is hurting their test results is without merit.

I watched Motorcyclist, which is produced by the publisher of MX Racer and Dirt Rider, on Speed Channel Tuesday night and KTM had as much commercial time as any other Brand.

Most people feel that whatever they spend their money on must be great and when something or someone tells them otherwise, it bursts their bubble so they get defensive and seek out scape goats.

:whiner: about poor scores in the magazine tests is not going to improve the suspension or handling on anyone's KTM. I own a KTM but I'm not so biased by my ownership of one to fool myself into believing that it's better than it really is.

Yamaha's advertising budget has nothing to do with KTM's suspension and handling problems.

 

[Patman]

So instead of a "Shootout" winner what's wrong with taking the same group of bikes and providing information how each performs relative to each other, how the egros compare, etc... and leaving it at that? Why does there need to be a "winner" per se when the reality of it is that each of the bikes all do various things better than the others, fit different shapes & sizes of riders better than others and basically make different folks happy? I guess if your a clone of magazine tester "X" then perhaps the shootout winner method is your best solution for picking a bike but if your like the other 98.5% of us that don't walk on water maybe spending more time on actual descriptions of what each bike is like and what it offers would be more useful. I really think the manufacturers would be much better served by attending and even hosting events like DirtWeek where average Joe Blows like most of us could ride and comment on various bikes from a real life perspective. But then again what do I know. :silly:

 

[chadk01]

Patman>>> Excellent take on the subject....Why does there have to be a winner. I believe they are all winners, per say, it just depends on which bike fits that particular rider the best.

 

[cp380sx]

Originally posted by chadk01
Why does there have to be a winner. I believe they are all winners, per say

Just like the Special Olympics! :yeehaw:

 

[geremacheks]

Patman---I think that is exactly what's happening lately, especially in the new 4-stroke shootouts. They keep telling us that the bikes are so good, and so close, it's hard to pick a winner.

On the other hand, I think they feel pressusre that the reader doesn't want a cop-out--they want a shootout winner. So they'll never please everybody.

I, for one, think they are handling it pretty well so far. The more educated we are about the the bikes as a whole, the more we can decide for ourselves. Other opinions, like the ones we find in these forums, just help our choices along.

 

[Nverfastenuf]

Geremacheks, you hit it on the head. The public would scoff at a unanimous winner. There are a large number in society that want "someone else" to make the decision for them. Wether it be from an evaluation or just riding the same bike as your favorite MX\Enduro\Hare Srambles\Desert Champion, many make choices based on such results. Like they say, everbody LOVES a winner. And as stated earlier, many want definitive answers, not political hedging. As said before, it is not possible to please everyone. Evaluations as such have the ability to fuel the proverbial old flame of debate. Take them for what they are and "digest" the information that is provided. :thumb:

 

[WILDTHANG]

KTM is not looked at as a MotoCross contender and that's what these shootouts are geared for. Most people out there buying the SX,YZ,CR,KX,RM type of bikes do not race motocross, but there are plenty of people buying the so-called "bike to have". Just go to your local riding spot and watch the color change from year to year, I have seen some many guys around me go from RMs to KXs to CRs to YZs, everyone wants to feel like a winner and like someone else said; have someone tell them what the best bike for them is. With all the Racer oriented mags out there, it would be nice to see a mag like DirtRider cater to the average consumer or maybe it's time for a new mag to emerge.

 

[WILDTHANG]

Hey PatMan, Why not start a DirtRider.Net Shootout! LÖL

 

[IrishEKU]

Originally posted by WILDTHANG
With all the Racer oriented mags out there, it would be nice to see a mag cater to the average consumer or maybe it's time for a new mag to emerge.

Pssssst......There is big guy, REV. :)

 

[ktmboy]

I like the 'average joe Dirtweek bike test' idea!

 

[IrishEKU]

That would be nice but we as individuals are not in the same Demographic area as Magazines and Sponsors. Besides isn't there enough info on here in different forums about certain bikes to learn enough about what your next perspective steed will be?

 

[Patman]

Originally posted by WILDTHANG
Hey PatMan, Why not start a DirtRider.Net Shootout! LÖL

They can start delivering the bikes anytime they want and I'll get right on it :)

 

[chadk01]

Originally posted by Patman

They can start delivering the bikes anytime they want and I'll get right on it :)

:) :) :thumb: :yeehaw:

 

[Camstyn]

Maybe the manufacturers would like to contribute to a DW'03 shootout of normal riders, I'm sure this website gets as many or more views than the magazines.. And they get to do shootouts. :)