marathon man

maxrevs666 · Feb 13, 2008

My own personal opinion on the reason for my buddies injury is that he simply is running too fast for his body to adapt. He is already pretty fit as he swims EVERY day without fail. Im betting that his lung capacity meant that he didnt feel out of breath and was able to charge through the run at a lot quicker pace than me. for example on our first night out, he completed 2.2 miles in 17 minutes 30 seconds, whereas i really felt under pressure and it took me 24 minutes 47 seconds. At the moment I am covering the 2.2 miles in 20 minutes 30 seconds - not too shabby an improvement I think ;)

maxrevs666 · Feb 19, 2008

just a quick update to keep things current. My weekly mileage total is now 11 miles. I find that I can run 3 miles non stop without any huge discomfort. I did 5 miles last saturday which is the furthest I have EVER ran. I managed to do the first 4 miles without stopping but I did take a walking break twice during the final mile (I am being extra careful to not overdo it). I feel great and have managed to get a lot of work done that I had been putting off for a long time (such as putting a roof on my new shop - ill post pictures). I have happily managed to lose almost 15 pounds over the last 7 weeks too which really has me smiling :) Again, thanks to all for the encouragement

P.S. - I was running a few nights back and it was REALLY cold - it introduced me to the dreaded "joggers nipple" LOL

BadgerMan · Feb 19, 2008

Ha ha! Yes, the nipples can be a problem until they get toughened up a bit. You can use bandaids or put on some Body Glide but ultimately, they will get a bit calloused and won’t be such a problem. You can have problems with other bodily protrusions too if you get my drift. Body Glide or another similar product works wonders during those long runs. Keep building your mileage slowly to avoid injury and you will be fine. Be proactive and get some help at the first sign of an overuse injury.

I am training for a local marathon at the end of May. In addition to weekly hill work and tempo runs, my weekly long run was 16 miles this last weekend with a 6 mile “pick-up to marathon race pace” in the middle. As a result, I am having some IT band issues with my right leg this week. Point is, even after all these years of running, I can still get a bit over zealous, risking an injury and a possible set back in my training…….a reminder to stretch, strengthen, and possibly to start breaking in a new pair of shoes.

It sounds like you are doing great and having fun.

I mentioned fueling and hydration above. As you increase your workout time and mileage, both issues will become more important. Here is a great resource:

http://www.hammernutrition.com/downloads/fuelinghandbook.pdf

P.S. - I am not sue what your definition of "REALLY cold" is but during our run last weekend (February 10th) it was 5 degrees f, not C! ;)

Yes, I am crazy.....LOL!

fatcat216 · Feb 19, 2008

hi max rev.

1.) If you are able to run 4 or 5 miles for your long run, I'd recommend you start building to get more mileage in on your other days before you take that out. Long run = 1/2 of your base mileage is more a rule of thumb for when you get out there further.
2.) Tape the nipples. It only gets worse. Band-aids work.
3.) Be careful of frost bite on the other body parts. Badgerman can be more specific.
4.) It's averaged 10 below here for much of the last 3 months......F... no that isn't including the windchill. ach.

FANTASTIC job on the weight loss. You are doing awesome, and it is clearly showing.

Keep reporting.

BadgerMan · Feb 19, 2008

fatcat216 said:
3.) Be careful of frost bite on the other body parts. Badgerman can be more specific.

No I cannot as this is supposed to be a family friendly forum. ;)

BTW, it's more of an abrasion/chaffing concern which can happen anytime of the year.....not just during cold weather. Some of my worst chaffing problems have occurred during the hot months. Underarms, nipples, groin area, inner thighs, etc. There’s nothing like jumping in the shower after a three hour run and having that hot water hit all those chaffed areas. :yikes:

Body Glide (or equivalent) is a must have for the gym bag, IMO.

HubertGarfunkleIII · Feb 19, 2008

i used to run 4 miles a day. its not easy even just working up to 4 a day.

fatcat216 · Feb 19, 2008

BadgerMan said:
No I cannot as this is supposed to be a family friendly forum. ;)

BTW, it's more of an abrasion/chaffing concern which can happen anytime of the year.....not just during cold weather. Some of my worst chaffing problems have occurred during the hot months. Underarms, nipples, groin area, inner thighs, etc. There’s nothing like jumping in the shower after a three hour run and having that hot water hit all those chaffed areas. :yikes:

Body Glide (or equivalent) is a must have for the gym bag, IMO.

I absolutely cannot believe I'm about to argue this point. Lol. But yes, let me do just that! Consider yourself lucky on the "only chafing" concern, Badgerman. Lol. I've either read too many running gear catalogs or my guy friends having been pulling my leg...but...: They sell unders to help avoid frostbite in those special areas! (Polypro/goretex shielded for really cold climes; Simple compression shorts are recommended by some.)

The funniest part of coaching my middle schoolers was trying to advise young boys on compression shorts. My distance kids started wearing them under their race gear mainly because, being modest and at a time long shorts are "in", they felt the race shorts were obscene. However, compression shorts are great for injury prevention on very cold fall days, as well. It's pretty much a given up here for cross country. Not sure I can say "true" distance runners (beyond the five mile) wear them on their long runs. I suppose a few do. Comfort issues.

Yes chafing (in my case under a running bra, but also from short line, or even socks)..being completely exhausted, covered in salt and dirt, and in much need of a hot shower....... then... :yikes: - aaaaaah. Truly an exquisite sort of pain ! ;) Like Badgerman...my most miserable chafing problems were hot summer. Rain related chafing second. Body glide is fine, but I just used vaseline. I also did my between toes, to prevent nasty callouses. (Also used moleskin for feet issues.)

Maxrev how many days a week are you running?

maxrevs666 · Feb 20, 2008

Ok, you can check out my training plan here - the "x" denotes that I have completed the distance.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii141/maxrevs666/SKMBT_C25008022010230.jpg

Before starting the programme I ran 2 miles 3 times a week so I woudn't be jumping into the progamme totally green. The long run is really starting to get long from here on out. the half marathon is at the start of june and I plan on doing a marathon at about this time in 2009.

P.S. If anyone has glass they need cutting, Im sure my nipples are up to the task. as for any other areas, I dont even want to THINK about chafing / permafrost there!!!

Timmay#678 · Feb 20, 2008

The most painful thing you can do with chaffed nipples is spray lynx on them :yikes: .

I did a mountain race up Croagh Patrick (here in ireland) a few yrs ago, I unfortunately postioned my race number with 2 of the saftey pins just over my nipples :( , the pins were like a cheese grater during the whole race, i was in so much pain afterwards, my nipples were even bleeding. Lesson learnt the hard way, I haven't done it again since.

My running has stalled for the last 2 wks (I was away), I'll try to get the milage back to to the 20s next wk. I would love to be able to concentrate fully at athletics for the summer, but the motocross season is just about to kick off here :ride: , oh well I cant have it both ways.

fatcat216 · Feb 20, 2008

Maxrev-

Something is messed up on wk5, eh? I hope you don't mind me spouting off some more... I looked over your schedule. Here's my bossy little opinions.
Unless you have an injury, at a minimum I'd add a fourth running day much sooner than your schedule calls for. I'd recommend a broader base, unless you are cycling/swimming on those days listed as "rest". 2 miler in wk 4, 3 m in wk 5, 4 in wk 6.

There are two reasons to broaden your base: a.) It will speed your adaption. I call it toughening your legs up. b.) Without it, your progression in the middle/end becomes much too steep. You risk injury from ligaments which haven't adapted to the stress.

Add a fallback week at Week 9 (limit the long run), again, recovery and adaptation.

Just opinions based on what worked better for me. Listen to your body, first and foremost. We all come into the game at different fitness levels.

If you make it to wk 12 and feel good, start the taper 2 weeks later. But most of all??: Do what works in our life, and have fun doing it. That is what this is all about. Looks like fun. I adore training schedules. Lol. Totally psyched for you. :cool:

BadgerMan · Feb 20, 2008

fatcat216 said:
Looks like fun. I adore training schedules. Lol.

Well..........knock yourself out on this one........my life for the next three months :whoa:

fatcat216 · Feb 20, 2008

Bagderman: You survived week 6? Just a "little flaired up"? 3 speed workouts with no prior speed in the schedule. I would have guessed you would have had more troubling after effects. Lol.
Very nice schedule. :cool: May 24th is the day? You'll be good support to MaxRev. Timmay? pencil a schedule in here bud. The More the Merrier!

BadgerMan · Feb 20, 2008

fatcat216 said:
Bagderman: You survived week 6? Just a "little flaired up"? 3 speed workouts with no prior speed in the schedule. I would have guessed you would have had more troubling after effects. Lol.

LOL! Week six was a picnic compared to last week (7)!

If you look closely, you will notice that there is only two hard work outs per week with hill work and speed work alternating between Tuesday and Thursday nights. Our group meets both nights but I attend on Thursday only which means I do hills one week and speed the next. I do meet or exceed the suggested weekly total mileage though. You are right in that my tired old legs would not take two or three hard work outs per week for very long.

However, I started running to get in shape for enduro season back in.....get this......1988. I have run year 'round ever since. I always joke that if cannibals ever decide to eat me, they are gonna cut my legs off and throw them away! :ohmy:

maxrevs666 · Feb 21, 2008

the reason week 5 of my shedule looks so out of place is because the programme is actually made up of the first five weeks of a 10K programme and then a complete 12 week half marathon programme. i was planning on changing the fifth week to 4miles, 4miles 7miles. Personally I thought the mileage ramped up very quickly in the middle section but this is my first time following a "proper" training regime. Fatcat, what kind of distances would you suggest adding on the rest days? or what alternative activities would you suggest? To be honest I dont really feel tired on rest days and actually find myself restless and looking forward to getting out on the road! :coocoo:

Timmay#678 · Feb 21, 2008

fatcat216 said:
Timmay? pencil a schedule in here bud. The More the Merrier!

Hmm, I use to keep a running diary religiously filled up but with motocross nowadays I dont seem to take athletics quite as seriously (which is a shame). My usual schedule at the minute with the track and field coming up is as follows:

Monday: 7miles hard (~45mins)
Tuesday: rest
Wednesday: Speed work (ie 10x 400m)
Thursday: 6miles/40 minutes easy
Friday: Speed work on the track (ie, 4 sets of 400m run, 200m jog, 200m sprint)
Saturday: rest if racing sun or long run (1hour or 8/9miles)
Sunday: Race, if theres no race, long run

That comes to about 31miles a week. For the cross country season I'd only do 1 speed session a wk, but do about 40mi a week. This year will be my first full season doing motocross, so I can see that schedule getting thrown out the window when I am on the bike sun racing and practicing wed near every wk of the summer. I'm still hoping to do as many 400/800/1500m races as i can and a bit of mountain racing, but motocross is punishing on the body and my running will be effected a bit.

Timmay#678 · Feb 21, 2008

maxrevs666 said:
To be honest I dont really feel tired on rest days and actually find myself restless and looking forward to getting out on the road! :coocoo:

Oh god, its happened, you become a complete junky/addict, your life will never be the same again :nod: . Thankfully though, your drug of choice is running and your fix is running that bit further/faster each time ;) . I only took up running 3 yrs ago but couldn't imagine myself not running a few times a wk, even with the bikes taking over at the minute.

fatcat216 · Feb 21, 2008

Maxrevv- I'll post something more thoughtful later- don't bump up from five to 7 on the long. Instead- add 2 days of 2 mile runs, and extend your three mile runs to four. (total five running days.) You can do your strength training on the two mile days, or the rest days, which ever works better for you.
I'll post something more later. Thanks for asking! ;-)

fatcat216 · Feb 22, 2008

mtwrfss WK Total Miles Week ending
3 2 4 2 5 week 4 16 2/24/2008
4 2 4 2 6 week 5 18 3/2/2008
4 3 4 3 7 week 6 21 3/9/2008
4 3 5 3 8 week 7 23 3/16/2008
4 4 5 3 6 week 8 22 3/23/2008
4 3 5 3 10 week 9 25 3/30/2008
4 4 5 3 11 week 10 27 4/6/2008
3 4 5 3 9 week 11 24 4/13/2008
5 3 4 3 12 week 12 27 4/20/2008
5 4 5 3 13 week 13 30 4/27/2008
5 5 5 4 13 week 14 32 5/4/2008
5 5 6 4 10 week 15 30 5/11/2008
5 4 4 3 8 week 16 24 5/18/2008
4 3 2 2 13.1 week 17 24.1 5/25/2008
Recovery week week 18 15-20 6/1/2008
Recovery week week 19 20-25 6/8/2008
Begin Marathon Training week 20 6/15/2008

_______________________________________________________________________

Maxrevs- This is a very simple, modest rough, to give you an idea. My apologies for its form. I'll reload it as a spreadsheet later, with some comments.

I'm an advocate of 5 days of running with core/strength/yoga....But there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
The goal here is two fold- to get you to the actual marathon training by establishing a proper base. To allow you to complete the half marathon and feel strong.

I'll pretty this up on Sunday when I have more time. This is a modest achievable plan.
More on speed, hills, and the like at that time. (Also, are you going to be dirtbiking over the summer???)

fatcat216 · Feb 22, 2008

crap. That completely undid my formatting. I'll fix it later. :|

maxrevs666 · Feb 23, 2008

Dont worry about the formatting fatcat, I can follow it. Im just heading out the door on a 5 mile (my weekly long run), and to answer your question, yes indeed I'll be dirtbiking this summer!!! Im probably going to sit down and take some time to asess my programme tomorrow when I have a bit of spare time, thanks for all the input!

maxrevs666 · Feb 27, 2008

Quick update time. After I bounded out the door full of energy last Saturday to do my weekly long run (5 miles) I managed to run about halfway before I had to stop due to pain in my left knee. It wasn't extreme pain but enough to get me to stop running. The best way to describe it would be to say that it felt like my upper and lower leg bones were rubbing together. This totally freaked me out so I took my time and walked back to my car. On Sunday it felt a little better so I (probably foolishly) decided to go trail riding. About 15 minutes in and 4 miles from the forest exit, The chain on My buddys bike snapped. We took turns pushing the bike out of the woods but I definitely re-aggravated my knee. Im not ashamed to say that this whole episode depressed me immensely. I even went hog wild on eating junk food for the rest of the weekend and Monday night. I decided to rest up on Monday night instead of going running and my knee felt somewhat better again yesterday. Last night I ran 2 miles just to test out my knee, Im glad to say that everything feels good (but not quite 100%). Im going to attempt 3 miles tomorrow night and If there are no adverse effects, Ill resume my training programme.

fatcat216 · Mar 1, 2008

are you healing?

maxrevs666 · Mar 3, 2008

My knee is feeling ok at the moment, I wouldn’t say 100%, more like 97% there is no "pain" as such. I don’t know if it’s a mental thing or not, but Its like I can sense that something is not quite right with it. Maybe Im just being extra cautious because I don’t want my training derailed?

fatcat216 · Mar 3, 2008

Prudence is the wise thing. You could have some fluid or inflammation (or otherwise). If you were to ignore that, even without sharp pain, yes, you could end up with a bigger problem. Voice of experience, alas.

Follow your instincts. Try icing it a bit, as well. When it comes to knee & IT injuries- cross training on a bike may NOT, I repeat may NOT be advisable. It may be better to just let it heal. Thanks for keeping us up to date.

Glad you are staying in tune with your machine.

Timmay#678 · Mar 21, 2008

How's the running comimg along lads? For the first time ever I got 2 sessions in today, a speed session in the morning and 40mins in the afternoon (moment of madness). Feeling sore now though! I have been injury free now for 3 months or so, touch wood that that remains so! I'm finding it increasing tough to keep up the 5 days a week, the motocross season is in nearly in full swing and I'll be on the bike 2 days a week, and too sore to run for 2 more days :|

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