Montmorency County ORV Ordinance Public Meeting

[KTM Mike]

Looks like they finally got done with the plan... public meeting to be held Thursday, January 22 at 10:00 AM at the county road commission office located at 11445 M-32 Atlanta Michigan (that is just west of greater down Atlanta - you cant miss it)

I am planning to take the morning off work so I can make it. I am a bit concerned how they have seemingly made sure to set the timing of this meeting such many people cant come.

I am going to do my best to drag CR250@winters, silver and Meterman to the meeting if I can. I may bring my whole family along. If anyone is able to make it let me know - I'll buy ya lunch or if you need a place to stay the night before or after - we can put you up here!

For a while I was in fairly regular contact with some county commissioners - but have not heard much lately. Last I did hear, they were all tangled up in the defintion of exactly where the ORVs could or could not operate. There also was a complete and total lack of awareness on their part of where (for example) the MCCCT ran along county roads, or where the trail systems were. They did indicate they were trying to include some wording to prevent people from just bombing around subdivisions etc on ORVs. For the most part, what I was hearing from the commissioners was positive and supportive - but not entirely so. Of course there has been many locals voicing concern of ORVs causing damage to road shoulders, creating noise, dust etc.

Tom - any suggestions for what to say or not say at the meeting?

 

[Fred T]

Tom - any suggestions for what to say or not say at the meeting?

Um...."we'll just have to sell our quiet dirtbikes and ride Harleys with straight pipes around town instead then if this don't pass" - maybe? :whoa:

 

[tdunn976]

Freddy give Dick Ranney a call, He will most likely be joining you there.
989-469-2405.
Dick is still leading the fight and has spoke at most public hearings,his knowledge of the facts has moved most counties along.

Lake county sent a survey with the tax bills, 2/3 positive.
Iosco just passed some form also giving us 19 counties and with elections over expect more to look into it.

Thomas

 

[KTM Mike]

Tom - my guess is Fred will delegate attendance to me... but if he can make it - the more the merrier! I will give Dick a call.

Fred - quiet dirt bikes??? come on, you mean you havent stripped all that silly packing material in that silencer out yet? I bet it would make you waaaay faster if you did.... Real Men Make Noise

 

[KTM Mike]

I just got off the phone with Dick. He was not aware a date had been set, but now plans on being there. He mentioned that Oscoda county had 140 people there! It turned out I could not make it to that meeting but it sounds like they are being a bit dumb about how they are doing it - very little stuff opened up - fine with me, more riders may decide to head north a bit further up to Montmorency County - their money is welcome here!.

 

[meterman]

I'll be there Mike but only if I can stay at your house the night before and you buy me lunch....... :nener: just kidding of course.

What entrance do we use? And should I make signs or start writing a chant?

 

[KTM Mike]

Mark - gee, I dont know if you will be up for the big trip here though.... hope you can make it. I would still buy ya lunch though - how about some of Sheila's chili?

No clue on what entrance to use... Write a chant, and make sure you look like a stinky dirt biker (wont be to hard I am sure). See if you can round up a few others to show up - drag your Dad along... Dave Fish maybe? That guy on the CRF you had over here for Camp Chaos (sorry - I forgot his name!).

See you then. Oh, BTW - I have a CD of pics from Chaos for you - I will try to remember to bring it along.

 

[KTM Mike]

Results of the meeting

Well, the meeting took place this morning. Overall I think it went well. Meterman - thanks for showing up. I had hoped to talk with you but you left before we did. Silver was going to - but had a kid at home sick, and could not make it. CR250 has some lame excuse about work. A couple others I called to get to show up could not either. But - Dick Ranney did make it. I am very glad I called him.

It turned out this was not really the "formal" required public meeting - but was strictly the road commissions effort for some input. We did learn though the county really did not understand their public meeting obligations, and did not seem to intend to do what it really should be doing.

There was about 35, maybe more people there, including 1 DNR CO, 2 DNR staffers, our Sherrif, 2 State Cops. (not bad for a 10:00 AM weekday public meeting I guess). The crowd was generally not "serious off road enthusiasts". Some were clearly not supportors - but most, at least acknowledged yes, they do need an ordinance - but wanted to whine and complain about silly stuff first, and if they had their way, would have very few roads opened up. Really only one other spoke who was 100% behind opening things up as much as reasonable - (a handicapped senior citizen that enjoys riding his quad). A guy from Otsego County (one of their commisioners) stated "Otsego county doesn't even have any ORV trails", but he wanted to make sure there was consistency county to county, specifically mentioning 1 road which is on the county line - would be stupid to have one county open, one closed on that same road! (agreed on that point). That road however would be the primary access route to a store in Vienna from the Crapo Creek trails (which are primarily IN Otsego County! (CR250 - you had better contact your county folks and set them straight!) Dick did an excellent job, at one point really pointing out how we all can make this work, it does not need to be adversarial etc., and that we were not really all that far apart on the issues.
My wife and I both offered several comments and suggestions - volunteered to help out in what ever way we could.

End result - no conclusions stated by road commission, but I think it is clear they WILL enact an ordinance - the question is, just how restrictive it will be. They will then recommend to County Board, County board will do their required meeting (as they now clearly understand their obligations!). Overall, I think we gave them some good input, and helped shed a positive light on ORVs etc.

I will post back once I know date of the formal required public meeting.


I am REALLY glad we went, and glad Meterman and Dick made it as well. Had we not, there would of been NO real enthusiasts of the sport there from my county. I really think the 6 of us being there had a positive impact. Kurncz - I promise to go to yours in Otsego county if you promise to come to ours here! Silver - to late - you are screwed down there in Oscoda county, so come up here and make it better here!

Now back to your normally scheduled childish bickering among the "A and B wanna be what I am not" riders.... :nener:

 

[TCTrailrider]

Mike, you are a good man, thanks. :cool:

 

[tdunn976]

Big thanks Mike for taking the time to be heard and seen.
Spoke with Dick tonight, looks good and some closures to be recommended but not as bad as you think!

To all go be heard, it's so important to get our message out!

 

[KTM Mike]

Progress...slow but sure.... getting there

Montmorency county is moving along, slowly, on getting the ordinance addressed. The county board formed a "workgroup" to develop the plan to recommend to full board. I was invited to be part of the workgroup - which met yesterday. Overall a good meeting.

The end result, the workgroup's conclusion was the vast majority of the county will be open, with the exception of just a few roads in the northwest corner of the county - in the Pigeon River State Forest Quiet Area. Use in platted subdivisions will be limited to ingress and egress only (ie - no roundy roundy the neighborhood to piss off the neighbors - makes sense to me). They intend to identify some "preferred routes" for primary access to food fuel lodging etc.. I have no idea on timeline - I will be very suprised if they manage to have this wrapped up before mid May.

It was interesting to hear what the various people there had to say. Every single representative from the various townships said their township boards concluded "leave it all open". One local conservation group member and the DNR were really behind the Pigeon River area closure. I told them that made total sense - there were no ORV trails anywhere near that area, very very few cabins etc. - so no reason what so ever to keep it open to ORVs.

Of course the topic of riding in closed areas came up. I made a comment that among the locals, a very high % have NO clue what the real laws were for ORVs (in part due to confusion as a result of wording the old county road use ordinance). As if to prove my point, the guy that is Manager of the Village of Hillman chimes in commenting about the area he likes to ride the trails - west of M-33 north of Canada Creek. There are NO ORV trails west of M-33 in that area! That lead to a lot of discussion of the need for more public education etc.

I had the chance to talk to Paige Perry - DNR ORV tech (or what ever her title is). I was pleasantly surprised - time after time she commented about "you have to look at this from a user perspective" addressing issues (for example) of how riders would perceive a road closure that simply dead ended vs. allowed them to make a loop by passing the closed roads etc. I asked her if she had any contact with a Tom Dunn - she rolled her eyes and said "oh that jerk..." :p not really - she immediately added "and Mike Mauer, yeah we were working on a tree planting down by Rose City." She is VERY interested in doing a tree planting in Montmorency County. (lets make it happen and get an event going on over this way!). She really seems to appreciate and understand the public relations value (and environmental value) of the tree plantings, and seems to totally support the efforts on our part.

So, we are getting there, and unless the county board does something contrary to the workgroup's recommendation, we are in good shape.

 

[3KDXXR2]

Thanks Mike for giving up your time to represent those of us who cant be there. I know that it benifits you and you boys personally, but it also benifits me when I can make it up for a visit.
Curtis

 

[2TrakR]

The end result, the workgroup's conclusion was the vast majority of the county will be open, with the exception of just a few roads in the northwest corner of the county - in the Pigeon River State Forest Quiet Area.

Bummer. That's heavy mushroom picking territory and tons of folks on side by sides, golf carts and ATVs (but more of "multiple rider rigs" than ATVs). Unless they are referring to the very further NW corner.

They intend to identify some "preferred routes" for primary access to food fuel lodging etc..

That's always a good plan. Providing some basic plan helps keep the majority of the traffic on them. Most folks prefer to follow a marked path vs make-their-own.

I will be very suprised if they manage to have this wrapped up before mid May.

Wonder if Rites of Spring was planning to use the county roads again this year...

Thanks for the update and for putting your time and effort into it.

 

[KTM Mike]

Irony is, my kids and I actually don't benefit from it any more as all of our bikes are plated, and Mark will have his driver's license in April - but I do it for all for you Curtis..and the other yahoo's that seem to show up at my place year after year with bikes that are not plated! ;)

2trakr - the closed area would be way northwest most corner - Blue Lakes Road for sure and maybe one or two other shorter bits - actually a rather limited amount to be closed. There was discussion of the mushroomers, with Paige commenting about how many quads/side by sides they find bombing around the two tracks. I really did like the "preferred routes" idea. That way the locals still have the access from their doorstep, the visitors have an easy way to town. No clue on the ROS plans. I did suggest that they contact the CCC as a good resource to help with marking roads etc.

 

[2TrakR]

the closed area would be way northwest most corner - Blue Lakes Road for sure and maybe one or two other shorter bits

That would make sense, especially if Otsego is not going to open their roads in that area, given that Blue Lakes crosses into Otsego just a mile or so to the west.

There was discussion of the mushroomers, with Paige commenting about how many quads/side by sides they find bombing around the two tracks.

I was amazed at the number of campers and their vehicles around 622 and Growler Club. Regular community going on out there in 'shroomin' season. Lots of illegal riding going on during that time (riding forest roads with ORVs to get to the mushrooms).

 

[fatherandson]

Tree Planting.....

Mike we are trying to coordinate the tree planting in May with the Family Enduro at Ogemaw Sport and Trail in Rose City. Paige did mention planting trees in the Atlanta area, but if people camp in Rose City, Atlanta is too far to drive to "volunteer".
I am glad she mentioned it as I need to follow up with her.

 

[KTM Mike]

Tree Planting.....

Mike we are trying to coordinate the tree planting in May with the Family Enduro at Ogemaw Sport and Trail in Rose City. Paige did mention planting trees in the Atlanta area, but if people camp in Rose City, Atlanta is too far to drive to "volunteer".
I am glad she mentioned it as I need to follow up with her.

Actually I knew you had one planned for Rose City - so we were more discussing one for next year. So we need to plan on an event over here to go with it! :cool:

 

[tdunn976]

Mike, Paige was right, that Tom Dunn Guy IS a jerk! :)
I know him personally :nener:

 

[meterman]

Public hearing for Montmorency County ORV ordinance will be April 28, 2009 at 10:00 am in the Board of Commissioners Room at the Courthouse.

Link to ORV ordinance PDF file.

 

[KTM Mike]

Public hearing for Montmorency County ORV ordinance will be April 28, 2009 at 10:00 am in the Board of Commissioners Room at the Courthouse.

Link to ORV ordinance PDF file.

Mark - when did they announce the date? I have been watching for some notice of it, but have not seen a thing!

 

[KTM Mike]

I just read through the ordinance - I dont like this section:

(4). If the operator is a person 16 years of age or older, but less than 18 years of age, then the operator shall
have In his or her immediate possession a valid drivers license and a safety certificate or shall be under the
direct visual supervision of a parent or guardian and shall have In his or her immediate possession a safety
certificate.

That requirement is more restrictive than ORV law, and I suspect more so than other counties - so a 17 yr old can ride Alpena county unsupervised and without a safety certificate, (and can legally ride the ORV trails), but crosses the line into Montmorency county and must have Mommy there to supervise? Mark - I dont know if I will have a chance to or not...but if you can, call Tom Young and point that out to him!

Mike

 

[meterman]

Mike- It was on the counties web site, under board meeting minutes I think.

 

[2TrakR]

I just read through the ordinance - I dont like this section:

(4). If the operator is a person 16 years of age or older, but less than 18 years of age, then the operator shall
have In his or her immediate possession a valid drivers license and a safety certificate or shall be under the
direct visual supervision of a parent or guardian and shall have In his or her immediate possession a safety
certificate.

This is just following PA240, I don't think it's more restrictive. Here's relevant portion of PA240:

(9) A person under 18 years of age shall not operate an ORV pursuant to this section unless the person is in possession of a valid driver license or under the direct supervision of a parent or guardian and the person has in his or her immediate possession an ORV safety certificate issued pursuant to this part or a comparable ORV safety certificate issued under the authority of another state or a province of Canada. A person under 12 years of age shall not operate an ORV pursuant to this section. The requirements of this subsection are in addition to any applicable requirements of section 81129.

 

[wemjam]

Has any body heard how the meeting went and what the outcome was?

 

[KTM Mike]

Outcome: The ordinance passed! Unanimous in favor!

The public hearing had about 30 or 31 people there. 12 people spoke up in favor of the ordinance, 6 opposed. Dick Ranney (AMA D-14 President) was there - did a great job on keeping some facts straight. Meterman (a DRN user and local resident) and a buddy of his showed up, along with myself and my 2 son's, and a friend from the Gaylord area were all there, plus a number of other locals. I had sent out a mass email asking others to at least email some of the commissioners - I know at least 2 or 3 did send emails. Thanks to all that showed up or sent emails!

Those opposed of course had the typical issues. We were able to refute their issues rather quickly - the ordinance addressed basically every single point brought up.

Right after the public hearing, the commissioners held an official "special meeting" to vote on the ordinance. Based on some input at the public hearing, they did add in a provision to require it be reviewed once each year. Otherwise it should be same as what was posted before. If I followed it correctly, it will be officially effective Wednesday, May 6, 2009 (needs to be published in the local paper to be in effect).

After the meeting I was approached by a representative of a local conservation group. I had sent a letter to the editor a week or so ago and commented that we did need to address public education on this issue, as well as ORV laws in general (many locals really dont seem to know they can not ride anywhere they want!). He was asking if I would work with him and his group to accomplish this - of course I said "yes". While I dont like to portray it in this fashion, I am a firm believer of "hold your friends close, hold your enemies closer" - maybe we can get this local group exposed to how ORV users can be responsible people. I also spoke to Paige Perry (DNR Trail Tech?) - Tom D. - we gotta get a tree planting in Montmorency county next year! She is eager to see it happen - I will do all I can to help out! So when it comes to planning tree planting next year - we got dibs here OK?! (and lets set the stage for an event here - I understand the CCC got a permit for some "event trail" for ROS.... )

So - good news! Thanks again all who helped support!

Mike