Motorcycle only trail !

tdunn976 · Feb 7, 2008

Motorcycle only trail is one step closer to being enforced by Law Enforcement Division (LED)
Soon to be on the DNR website is a list of Motorcycle only trail which will presented to the Natural Resource Committee(NRC) as a land use order by director (LUOD)

If passed then these trails would be considered Motorcycle Only trail and enforced as such by LED without changing the Land use Statutes by legislative action.

This all came about by a petition circulated by Magoo and the UP SandStormer.

Please take the time to visit the site and make comments before Feb 22, 2008 as they want to present to NRC at their next meeting.

www.michigan.gov/dnr
Most likely under press releases

Thomas Dunn
AMA D-14 Assist Legislative Director

YZMAN400 · Feb 7, 2008

Thats great news. I surfed the DNR's site but couldn't find anything on it. then again I can never find anything on there site. Its dang confusing in there.

BadgerMan · Feb 7, 2008

Here are the minutes from when the issue was raised.....

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/November2007ORVMinutes_218365_7.pdf

PoeBrian · Feb 8, 2008

Big thanks to Magoo and Sandstormers!

fatherandson · Feb 8, 2008

Magoo called me last week to see if I could attend this meeting. Looks like Tom Dunn had things under control. It was a lot of work collecting the signatures - THANKS MAGOO!!!

2TrakR · Feb 8, 2008

Details on DNR proposal regarding motorcycle only trails:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/Motorcyclebreifingpaperforweb_224401_7.pdf

Apply Land Use Order to these motorcycle trails to only allow cycles:

North Missaukee Trail - MC only segments - MC LUOD
Tin Cup Trail - MC LUOD
Little Manistee Trail - MC LUOD
Evart Motorcycle Trail - MC LUOD
Long Lake Motorcycle Trail - MC LUOD
Lincoln Hills Trail - MC LUOD
Grand Traverse Motorcycle Trail - MC LUOD
Hunt Creek Motorcycle Trail - MC LUOD
Tomahawk Motorcycle Trail B & C - MC LUOD
Brevort/Trout Lake Trail - MC LUOD
Kinross Trail - MC LUOD
Foreman Lake Trail - MC LUOD
Birch Hill Trail - MC LUOD
Sandtown Trail - MC LUOD
Newberry - Rexton Trail - MC LUOD
Porterfield Lake Trail - MC LUOD
Bass Lake Trail - MC LUOD

Change this Route from allowing all ORVs to only allowing Motorcycles:

Tomahawk Routes - MC only segment Re-des/LUOD

Change these trails from motorcycle to ATV & Motorcycle:

Silver Creek Trail - MC/ATV Re-designate
Drummond Island Trail - MC/ATV Re-designate
Tomahawk Motorcycle Trail A - MC/ATV Re-designate
Bummer’s Roost Cycle Trail - MC/ATV Re-designate
Red Bridge Motorcycle Trail - MC/ATV Re-designate
Missaukee Junction Motorcycle Trail - MC/ATV Re-designate

TCTrailrider · Feb 8, 2008

Thanks for the info. 2track, thanks Magoo for your efforts. I hope much of the new trail proposed to be added will be cycle only. Most of the cycle only trail listed above has allready been ruined by quad traffic, widened forever, can't be fixed.

UP Magoo · Feb 8, 2008

I'm more than a little uncomfortable with this being posted here.

The 4wheelers have fought this vigourously and loudly ever since I submitted it. It has been a difficult item to gain any traction because of their constant berating of the DNR and ORV Advisory Comittee for even considering this. I certainly do not wish to continue to raise their ire.

I can go on and on about this. I have worked within the framework given to us as ORV recreationalists, and the DNR has recognized that. We have presented solid information, and the DNR has researched and responded. I am happy with the result! I hope that many positive and constructive comments are received by the DNR, that the NRC approves this recommendation, and that the Land Use Order of the Director is implemented.

Many "thanks" to the many that have, and are, assisting with this effort.

TCTrailrider · Feb 8, 2008

Jeff,
I don't want to cross any lines and certainly don't want to undoo anyones good work. The 4 wheel crowd is a big one indeed, and growing. They need places to ride, and lots of them. Evart was, is, designated as cycle only trail. 2 years ago it was tight and challenging on 2 wheels. This fall most of the trail would accomodate a Rhino (small jeep). Same applies to Long Lake, Grand Traverse and Tomahawk (A & C loops) : . If these opportinities are taken away from the 4 wheelers they won't be happy, and shouldn't be happy, they are now quad trails.

Now cut some parallel cycle only single track in these areas and everyone would be happy. :)

UP Magoo · Feb 8, 2008

All the more reason we need to protect the single track we have. I hope you'll support what we've been trying to accomplish. FYI, I started this over two years ago -- before your trails were ruined.

What happens if the Rhinos and quads start utilizing the parallel trails you're hoping for? Need some way to enforce the rules...now and in the future.

Also, I hope everyone will take this as a message to become INVOLVED. In a club, in an organization, or at least let your local DNR know that you care and wish to recreate responsibly. You need to do something to help the sport.

You need to speak up for what you want, or you will lose it. That much I am certain of.

TCTrailrider · Feb 8, 2008

UP Magoo said:
I hope you'll support what we've been trying to accomplish. FYI, I started this over two years ago -- before your trails were ruined.

What happens if the Rhinos and quads start utilizing the parallel trails you're hoping for? Need some way to enforce the rules...now and in the future.

.[/QUOTE

Absolutely support your efforts, lip service is easy, working for change is not. :cool:

I think (hope) the wide rides will stay away from the skinny stuff if there are wider riding opportunities close by. Cycle only single track on a quad can't be fun, but if thats all you have?

4 friends plan a weekend ride, Evart sounds challenging, two show up on bikes, two on quads. Thats the reality, we need to find a way to make it work.

Fred T · Feb 8, 2008

Well, designating certain trails for motorcycle only is a positive start. Signage and enforcement is also a plus-that can retain the integrity of future single track for many years. I kinda like the layout at Tin cup as the wide stuff inter weaves with the single track and that keeps the groups together regardless of what they ride. The DNR appreciates the fact that private citizens are willing to maintain the trails upkeep thorugh organized clubs or groups. It's a lot of work but at least we have somewhere to ride-many states do not.

tdunn976 · Feb 8, 2008

To all,
Yes the Quads are growing at a much larger and faster rate then motorcycles,My job is to see that everyone gets a portion of the pie,even the Big 4 wheelers.
I see this as a good step in protection of cycle only trail as per the overall veiw taken by the DNR, which has always intended to maintain some cycle only trail. They know and understand that the wider the trail the faster the sppeds and the increase in injuries and accidents.
Problem has been due to Land use disciption of what a forest trail is, kept LAW Enforcement Division from being able to enforce trail marked as only Motorcycle.

There is NO loss of riding opportunity for any ORV in this plan, only changes in where they may legally do so.
Actually the Quads gain 6% while cycle only losses 6% .
The amount of trail remains the same,and allows both groups to maintain trail that they want and is technically challenging.

2TrakR · Feb 9, 2008

tdunn976 said:
There is NO loss of riding opportunity for any ORV in this plan, only changes in where they may legally do so.
Actually the Quads gain 6% while cycle only losses 6% .
The amount of trail remains the same,and allows both groups to maintain trail that they want and is technically challenging.

The no loss quote above is BS pure and simple. Non-cycle riders are losing access to 500 miles of trail. Trails they were legally allowed on, by definition of Michigan Law. For those of you who were involved/around when the State went to closed unless posted open and we lost all of those trails - how PO'd were you at that loss of trail?

TCT has the right idea - provide ample opportunity for all. This can be done without taking away from the existing opportunities. Not to mention the opportunity to implement this "added opportunity" with the "800 miles of new trail".

(Tom, your post sure sounded like Ranney rather than your writing style, was this a message from him you are passing on?)

PS - we need to keep singletrack trail available. WE can do this without tickets. The USFS has done this (see the Meadows system). The State has done this with the Lincoln Hills/Tin Cup parallel systems.
WE just need to put up the right signs and make maps that tell riders what is allowed on the trail. Violators will still violate. The legit riders will follow the rules without the need for tickets. The Meadows has a simple sign on the single track - an ATV with circle & a slash (the universal "No ATV"). This in itself keeps the ATVs off the single track - the DNR has not tried this simple, cost effective, method. Of course, having an ATV trail right next to the single track makes it an even easier choice for the riders.

Of the trails being proposed to be closed to ATVs...

Which one of these should be ATV and which should be cycle?

In case you're wondering, the top is Silver Creek, which is going to be designated as an ATV trail and the bottom is Tomahawk C Loop, which will be designated as cycle-only.

bbarel · Feb 9, 2008

This is great news. I agree TCT that existing trails are already widened, but that's water under the bridge now. But I think it's HUGE that now the the DNR recognizes the need for different types of motorized trail across the state. At least now IF and when we get new silgle-track trail it should be more protected from widening than it would have been previously. Great work Magoo and all who contributed.

warrior91 · Feb 9, 2008

I find this insane. Americans actually need to legislate what you can drive on a certain bush trail ??? Thank God ,In Canada, You can ride your dirtbike and ATV on the same trail.... Holy smokes I just can't believe time/money wasted on diferentiating between quad and mx trails....How about both groups trying to keep land use available for either instead of infighting.
Up here you drive on the trail that your bike fits on...Since all trails are snowmobile trails in the winter, they are built wide. Quads fit great, UTV are wide in spots and MX can drive anywhere.
My thoughts are that keeping ALL bikes on A designated trail rather than willy nilly through the bush ripping upmore wildspace, is more important than splitting the OHV crowd by making each class unique and splitting up trails.... Wouldn't everyone like to ride a 1000 miles of trail instead of forced/split onto only 500 miles ...

Home of the brave...O.K.---Land of the Free???

HAYSHAKER170 · Feb 9, 2008

I don't know of the details of this legislation, but I know one thing for sure: we offroaders must unite because divided the tree huggers will slowly take away all of our trails. Also, most of my friends ride quads and what fun is that if we had to take different trails??

bbarel · Feb 9, 2008

Warroir91, Many dirt bikers much prefer narrow 24" trail as opposed to 50" and wider trail. Riding dirt bikes on a widened trail is like riding your warrior on a dirt road. It is just not very challenging and you naturally go faster, which is more dangerous. To answer your question I would much prefer 500 miles of more challenging, slower and SAFER motorcycle trail with 500 miles of quad trail than 1000 miles of multi-use trail.

bruno670 · Feb 9, 2008

2TrakR said:
...The State has done this with the Lincoln Hills/Tin Cup parallel systems.
WE just need to put up the right signs and make maps that tell riders what is allowed on the trail.
.

Well this doesn't work like it is supposed to. I have seen quad tracks throughout Tin Cup,and Evart has the circle slash ATV at the entrance to some of the trails and they still can't read the pictures. We need TRUE legislation to give us the upper hand when dealing with the "I don't care I will ride where I want ATV riders."
From my experience when dealing with most ATVers they will obey the rules. But there are a few , as with most groups of people, those that just refuse to follow the rules. These people ruin it for the rest of us. I remember when Evart , in the trail book, actually had a MC only with an arrow pointing to the trail. This makes dealing with some who don't care difficult to explain the trail to.

Wolverine423 · Feb 9, 2008

warrior91 said:
I find this insane. Americans actually need to legislate what you can drive on a certain bush trail ??? Thank God ,In Canada, You can ride your dirtbike and ATV on the same trail.... Holy smokes I just can't believe time/money wasted on diferentiating between quad and mx trails....

I'm damn happy that YOUR happy to be a Canadian! why worry over US lands and US tax payers money?...

Land of the free,
DW

2TrakR · Feb 9, 2008

bruno670 said:
Well this doesn't work like it is supposed to. I have seen quad tracks throughout Tin Cup,and Evart has the circle slash ATV at the entrance to some of the trails and they still can't read the pictures. We need TRUE legislation to give us the upper hand when dealing with the "I don't care I will ride where I want ATV riders."
From my experience when dealing with most ATVers they will obey the rules. But there are a few , as with most groups of people, those that just refuse to follow the rules. These people ruin it for the rest of us. I remember when Evart , in the trail book, actually had a MC only with an arrow pointing to the trail. This makes dealing with some who don't care difficult to explain the trail to.

The State does not have any signage in the ORV program that designates a trail as closed to ATVs. All signs put up have been custom "homebrew" signs, many with magic marker. What are you going to believe on a public trail - some sign obviously not part of the program (again, magic marker or portions of the sign broken off to only show the ATV and not the cycle) or what the law, ORV handbook and official State trail map indicates? All of these ORV trails have been legal for ATVs to be on since they were put on the ground, regardless if the trail was maintained for cycles or not.

On USFS trails where there are cycle-only (and street license required) trails, they do have signs that are not only official and part of the program, but they are followed by the majority of riders.

The USFS is able to implement this by requiring street licensing. They ticket anything w/o a plate on trails like Horseshoe and Big O. Maybe that is the direction the State should go instead, require a license plate to use any of the trails they want restricted to cycles.

State trails like Evart/Tin Cup/etc have not implemented any such signs as part of the ORV program.
The State's official trail maps have never shown a cycle with an arrow pointing at Evart (that I have copies of or have seen I should say); perhaps you are thinking of the CCC's map book?

bruno670 · Feb 9, 2008

Yes it was an OLD CCC book that was designated. I also seen with my own eyes 3 quads and 3 bikes try to run the B Loop of Tomahawk counter-clockwise from the parking lot by weber lake. Luckily it was too tight for them to enter and they turned around. What we need, and I know that it is a long shot, is legislation restricting people from entering a trail that is maintained at the 24 inch width. Everytime I see someone unloading their quad at Evart I do my best to discourage them by telling them that they may NOT make it around. Little lies about trees down and the such. Most everyone leaves shortly after.

2TrakR · Feb 10, 2008

bruno670 said:
I also seen with my own eyes 3 quads and 3 bikes try to run the B Loop of Tomahawk counter-clockwise from the parking lot by weber lake.

While riding the Tomahawk C Loop this fall, I passed more quads than bikes on the trail. The part I found hilarious was the quads were making better time than the majority of bikes (they were smaller sporty quads).

OVER 50 · Feb 10, 2008

I've made this comment several times before, if a single track trail was laid out within, say thirty yards of a established trail, I would bet most riders would stick to the trail that best suits they're machine. Tin Cup an others like it seem to work well to keep two wheel/four wheel riders on they're preferred trail. I'd like to see this concept on trails we already have than to wait for new trails that are a long time coming. And a typical "60's"refrain,The beat goes on!!!

Wolverine423 · Feb 10, 2008

OVER 50 said:
I've made this comment several times before, if a single track trail was laid out within, say thirty yards of a established trail, I would bet most riders would stick to the trail that best suits they're machine. Tin Cup an others like it seem to work well to keep two wheel/four wheel riders on they're preferred trail. I'd like to see this concept on trails we already have than to wait for new trails that are a long time coming. And a typical "60's"refrain,The beat goes on!!!

:cool:

Motorcycle only trail !

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