Newbie help: Difference between Hare Scrambles, Cross Country, etc.

mtk · Oct 14, 2004

Hello everyone,

I've been riding motorcycles for 20 years, roadracing since 1997, but I only recently started into dirt riding. I've got a good handle on Motocross, Supercross, Arenacross, etc. but the "Offroad" sports are ones I don't have nearly as good a handle on at the moment. Can anyone tell me the differences between Hare Scrambles, Cross Country, Enduro races, and any other non-motocross types of offroad racing? I'm referring to both Pro racing (GNCC, WORCS, etc.) as well as low-level club racing stuff (AMA Amatuer events, etc.).

See, if I can't figure out what the races are, I can't sucker myself into trying it once. :laugh:

Code-Red · Oct 14, 2004

I'm not an expert OK but heres what I know from our club. A hare scramble is a race in a loop. Typically through the woods. You race for a fixed amount of time, we do 2 hrs. and see how many laps you can make and record your fininsh time. Enduros are 1 LOOOOOONG loop (woods). Ours is about 80 miles and its tough. Many people do not finish. You are required to average a certain speed over the course. There are several checkpoints along the route at known distances. Your arriving at the check point is scored against the time you get there vs the time you should get there. It is worse to be early at a check point than it is to be late I think.

Hope this helps a little.

xcracer725 · Oct 17, 2004

i think XC and HS is the same think bascicaly.

BJH · Oct 20, 2004

I'm no expert either but...WORCS has quite a bit of MX type terrain and or desert vs. GNCC which has very little if any MX type terrain. GNCC is like a three hour natural terrain race, and it's extremely tough. The loops are something like 8 to 15 miles in length I believe.

GNCC-link
WORCS-link

teamgrizzly · Oct 21, 2004

Basically a Cross Country does one loooooooong lap (80-100km/132-160mi) of the countryside. So you'll worry about the obstacles ahead of you that you don't know about.

A Hare Scramble is multiple laps of a shorter loop. (5-20km/8-32mi) So you'll worry about riding over the obstacle you just finished fighting with.

Kind of a "devil you know, versus the devil you don't" kinda thing. :D

mtk · Oct 21, 2004

Thank much for the info.

Sounds like Hare Scrambles are the ticket for a first time out. That way when the "Jesus, what was I thinking" thoughts set in, I don't have as far to go to get back to my truck and die. :)

Waldokx100 · Oct 22, 2004

What do you guys think is more fun?

psycho · Oct 24, 2004

I like the H.S. format better. allows you to get a feel for it and hopefully do better then next loop. I am WAY too slow when it comes to the "unknown" as in enduros. Just my perspective on things.

xcracer725 · Oct 26, 2004

ive raced a gncc before, it is basically all types of terrain xcept MX but when i raced the gncc, part of the track was an MX course...it was fun.

thumbs · Oct 29, 2004

This is what we have out here in California. The WORCS races are the same format as a GP.

What is a Hare & Hound?
A Hare & Hound event is a marked course that is run over natural desert terrain. It consists of two unique loops totaling at least 60 miles. Typically, each loop is between 30 and 40 miles, with the first loop being easier than the second loop. Beginners, Super Seniors, Minis, and any One Loop riders only ride the first loop.

What is a Hare Scramble?
A Hare Scramble event is a marked course that is run over natural desert terrain. It consists of one loop of at least 30 miles that is run twice to make up a total of at least 60 miles. Beginners, Super Seniors, Minis, and any One Loop riders only ride the first loop.

What is a European Scramble?
A European Scramble event is a marked course that is run over natural desert terrain. It consists one loop of between 6 miles and sixteen miles. All riders run the same loop over and over for the duration of the event, which lasts between 45 minutes and 1 hour and 15 minutes, depending on the start. The European Scramble format is a great race to get your feet wet, and see what desert racing is about!

What is an Enduro?
An Enduro event is a timed event run on a marked course over natural desert terrain. It is different from other types of events because the winner is determined by both speed & time keeping. Starts are in groups of four. Very challenging and fun!

What is a Grand Prix?
A Grand Prix event is a closed course event that includes both natural and graded terrain. In other words, parts of the course are run on a motocross style track and parts of the course are run on natural or desert terrain.

mtk · Nov 3, 2004

OK, who sanctions all these races?

What about classes? Are they grouped by bike size, rider skill, or both? All my racing experience is roadracing, where you're either an Expert or a Novice (white or yellow number plates) and then classes are divided by engine displacement and allowable modifications. Amatuer motocross seems to be quite different in that regard. Is offroad racing similar to amateur motocross?

thumbs · Nov 3, 2004

In AMA D-37 this is how we do it. Each of the divisions/classes below are also broken down by skill level. Each skill level is given a different color stripe that is run on the front # plate.

White = Beginer or "D"
Green = Novice or "C"
Yellow = Amature or "B"
Red = Expert or "A"

Hare & Hounds, Hare Scrambles & European Scrambles
1. Mini 0-80cc (12-15 years)
2. Four stroke
3. Lightweight II; 0 - 200cc
4. Lightweight I; 201 - 250cc
5. Heavyweight; 251cc - Up
6. Women's Division
7. 30+(Vet) Lightweight: 0 - 250cc w/ one loop
8. 30+(Vet) Heavyweight: 250 - Up w/ one loop
9. 40+(Sr) Lightweight; 0 - 250cc w/ one loop
10. 40+(Sr) Heavyweight; 251cc - Up w/ one loop
11. 50+(Mag) w/ one loop
12. 60+(SSr)
13. Quad

Enduros
14. Mini 0-80cc (12-15 years)
15. Four stroke
16. Lightweight II; 0 - 200cc
17. Lightweight I; 201 - 250cc
18. Heavyweight; 251cc - Up
19. Women's Division
20. 30+(Vet) Lightweight: 0 - 250cc w/ one loop
21. 30+(Vet) Heavyweight: 250 - Up w/ one loop
22. 40+(Sr) Lightweight; 0 - 250cc w/ one loop
23. 40+(Sr) Heavyweight; 251cc - Up w/ one loop
24. 50+(Mag) w/ one loop
25. 60+(SSr)

Grand Prix
26. Mini 0-80cc (12-15 years)
27. Four stroke
28. Lightweight II; 0 - 200cc
29. Lightweight I; 201 - 250cc
30. Heavyweight; 251cc - Up
31. Women's Division
32. 30+(Vet) Lightweight: 0 - 250cc
33. 30+(Vet) Heavyweight: 250 - Up
34. 40+(Sr) Lightweight; 0 - 250cc
35. 40+(Sr) Heavyweight; 251cc - Up
36. 50+(Mag)
35. 60+(SSr)
38. Quad
39. Quad-Veteran (30 and over)
40. Side Hack
41. Classic (1979 and older)
42. Vintage (1974 and older)

BTW - We have eliminated the 4-stroke classes for 05'

thumbs · Nov 3, 2004

http://www.ama-cycle.org/amrace/torace.asp

Mudd Slinger · Nov 6, 2004

Thunbs, you are very close but you must be from a desert area. I think there are variations on the different races depending on the course, the individual/club who laid out the course, the terain available, etc. Most of the hair scramble I rode back east are typically a 2 hour loop over natural terain. Sometimes part of an MX course is mixed in for the spectator's fun. It is typically a mix of woods, hills, swamps, grass sections, jumps, down the middle of rocky creeks, over logs, ruts, roots, rocks, snow, and all the nasty stuff that you can throw in. The distance can very from a couple miles to 5 to 7 miles at the most. First one to complete the most laps in their class over a 2 hour period wins. I went to a couple in NE Texas as a spectator and they are similiar here.

Lonewolf · Nov 8, 2004

I really wish there were gp races around here, I would love to race race gp's and in the desert. I hate woods riding unless it is fast paced and has no massive mud holes, unlike the trails around here which are littered with pond sized puddles made by atv's. I made the switch to mx last year and I like it because I can ride fast, but some of the jumps are just to gnarly for me, this is why I dont race.I think gp racing would be such blast.I may be moving out west in the near future(Arizona), I can't wait to ride out there.

Lonewolf · Nov 9, 2004

mtk, I just noticed you are from Finleyville, I live only a few miles away in Jefferson. I take it you ride the Finleyville/South Park dumps area. I used to ride there all the time but I have become sick of riding there, the atv's pretty much ruined everything. If you are really interested in racing harescrambles you dont have to go very far, R&D Raceway in Bentleyville has a course, they usually race haresrambles the same day as the motocross races are held. The only bad thing is they do not let you practice the course because of insurance reasons, you can only ride it on race day.

mtk · Nov 10, 2004

Lonewolf,

Yes, I've ridden the dumps area in South Park and I know what you mean about the ATV ruts. I curse the day those infernal things were invented, but that's a rant for another discussion. ;) But with all that said, there are enough other areas off of the railroad tracks, i.e. offroad vehicle superhighway, that it's still quite entertaining, at least to me. But then again, I've only been dirt biking for less than a year so pretty much any place I can ride my dirt bikes is good enough for me. :D

As for racing harescrambles, that's only in the "what if" stages at the moment. I'd need to get in a lot better shape before I head down that road.

Shig · Nov 10, 2004

mtk said:
As for racing harescrambles, that's only in the "what if" stages at the moment. I'd need to get in a lot better shape before I head down that road.

You know it brother. Doing a HS for your first race would be the equivalent of a new jogger trying to run a marathon. I think a good ol motocross is a pretty great intro to racing. Enter the beginner class and don't worry about the jumps or not being in shape. The majority of the class will be rolling over the hard stuff just like you, and the beginner class only goes about 10 minutes per moto. While you are resting between motos, you can learn alot by watching the faster classes.

Buckholz · Nov 10, 2004

The best starter race is probably an enduro, riding in the lowest class, and not trying to keep time.

All the series pretty much have beginner classes in offroad.

And, a hare scrambles in the beginner class is probably just fine.

I think, about the worst way to start racing would be MX....

Pick a race series that only starts a few people at a time, probably the worst thing for a beginner is some kind of mass start.....

Shig · Nov 11, 2004

Buckholz said:
The best starter race is probably an enduro, riding in the lowest class, and not trying to keep time.

Yeah, you're probably right Buck, but I would hate to bonk, crash or have a mech problem deep in the woods on my first outing.

And, a hare scrambles in the beginner class is probably just fine.

Maybe, but it depends on the course and how the race is run. All the Hare Scrambles I've ridden have everyone from pros to minis on the track at the same time. The beginners start getting lapped by the pros before finishing their first lap. With several hundred riders on the same course at the same time, there is far more traffic to contend with in a HS than an MX.

I think, about the worst way to start racing would be MX....

The start may be risky in MX, but there are merits to being on a course you know very well with only riders of your same skill level for a short period of time. After the first turn, the field spreads out quickly. An MX start is no more or less risky for a beginner than being lapped by a pack of A, B or C riders (Cs being the most dangerous) who are dicing in a HS.

Pick a race series that only starts a few people at a time, probably the worst thing for a beginner is some kind of mass start.....

I have to agree. Maybe an enduro would be best if you are looking for the "off road" experience. Hare Scrambles around here are essentially a dead engine MX start with several other classes bearing down on you if you are slow starting. The beginners start toward the rear, so they start eating dust and passing carnage immediately after the first turn.

How about a poker run?

Newbie help: Difference between Hare Scrambles, Cross Country, etc.

mtk

Code-Red

xcracer725

BJH

teamgrizzly

mtk

Waldokx100

psycho

King Rot-Gut

xcracer725

thumbs

Tony 'da Rat

mtk

thumbs

Tony 'da Rat

thumbs

Tony 'da Rat

Mudd Slinger

Lonewolf

Lonewolf

mtk

Shig

Buckholz

Shig

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Newbie help: Difference between Hare Scrambles, Cross Country, etc.

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