off-road valving vs. mx valving

[flynbryan]

Question guys.......obviously offroad valving is designed to have a plusher initial, and mid-stroke, but how do you accomplish this what part of the valve stack affects the valving in this area? Is the mid-valve set to allow less resistance to the oil flow? Marcus, Jer, Shock Doc what are ya'lls thoughts? Im just curious on how tuners switch mx suspension over to the more plush settings for offroad.

 

[marcusgunby]

I have never done offroad stuff as all mine is mx-however the topic of adjusting for different conditions interests me alot-im guessing here but if we remove too much LSC it will sink too far into the stoke and be harsh-im thinking a fair amount less HSC for fast responce to gnarly stuff.Im also thinking more midvalve lift for a more responsive fork-from teh gold valve thread it seems like alot of offroaders use the check plate and lots of lift-propably isnt the worst thing to do.

I still wonder if midvalve lift should be used for adjusting for different rider speed(assuming the same weight)
My magic number for midvalve lift is 0.5mm at present.

 

[flynbryan]

Marcus what would midvalve lift be a resulting factor of? The resistance of the shims to allow the fluid to transfer through the ports? I think it does sound like drop LSC would make it sit to low in the travel. HSC I think would come into play with things like hitting roots and rock and etc. So I would think as well that a much lower HSC would be in order. Does anybody have experience w/offroad valving?

 

[marcusgunby]

flynbryan, im not sure if i have understood your answer but if not i will try again.
The midvalve lift determines when the midvalve becomes active-so the higher the lift the less active the midvalve is-the midvalve and the base valve both contribute damping, so the lift determines at what fork speed the midvalve creates damping -trouble is the midvalve shims also will alter this so its important to change only 1 parameter at a time.

 

[marcusgunby]

Ive re-read you question and i think i understand better now,
Its hard to answer as i dont think 2 tuners will agree-i bet i could get good results with alot of lift and also with no lift-however each has its drawbacks(eg no lift means very light base valve shims and so you get little effect using the clicker)
I bet someone who does this type of setting would have a better compromise than i would-its all about compromises really-offroaders are harder to please than mxers as the terrain is more varied-its like mxers wanting to ride really rough outdoor tracks one day and national sx the next.

 

[flynbryan]

yea Marcus thats about the answer I was looking for. A question for your field of expertice......ex. in braking bumps(I'm thinking this is high speed?) What would you do to make a plusher setup in this condition? Just seems to me that roots/rocks would be an extreme use of HSC. If so then I would think that you would alter the same circuit to make a plush ride for braking bumps as you would roots/rocks. Maybe?

 

[marcusgunby]

A good question-lets look at a few examples
01 CR125 and 03 KX125-not that different in valving at all-both have a good kick in breaking bumps-note  we are talking of mainly one large breaking bump causing the problem-lots of them could be a rebound packing issue.
Back to the example now on both bikes i have reduced LSC alot -however this will also reduce total HSC as total HSC is the total of all the valving-so we reduce LSC we also reduce the total HSC-on breaking bumps i have almost or no kicking-but is it the reduction in HSC or LSC thats done it?i feel its the HSC.
When std I tried to tune the kicking out using the comp adjuster and it didnt help.
On the KTMs i never got rid of the kicking under breaking-all other areas were acceptable but it always kicked-it got to me some much i sold the bike.

 

[marcusgunby]

I would just like to add to my above post-i have found for me its very hard to see or feel exactly what causes problems-often i have to go down a road that maybe the wrong way competely to learn-its not often i get it correct 1st time or even 2nd or 3rd.After you have seen a number of valve stacks from bikes you know to be bad or good it gives you direction as to what to alter-the linkage ratios change slightly but a good YZ setting will work in a KX or CR-it may not be perfect but it should be alot better than the stuff that comes out the factory.

 

[erider]

off road riding, enduro stuff, is very hard to find the right setup, we ride in deep sugar sand , hard terrain, rocks, you name it. I feel it all depends on the rider, how fast he is, sits or stands, if a steering damper is going to be used, the riders condition, how well he adapts to different terrain, ect. I ride AA in eastern enduros, my bikeis on the stiff side but the bike is a very good handling bikes if your going fast. For braking bumps I usually will use stiffer springs to keep the front end from riding too low in its travel, and change the low speed stack to make the bike feel plush.I have an 03 kx 250 that stock is to me a great woods setup. For rocks I use softer springs and softer high speed stack, with a stiffer low speed to keep the front end high, and a steering damper