pds question

J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
Can anyone give me the standard shim stack values for the 2000 200exc PDS shock please, and the 2001 if possible. I am going to have a go at changing them but need to order the shims before I start. Has any one got a PDS 7 spring they have spare(in the UK)??? I have most of the other sizes and could swap...

I have what I think are real good shim values for the front forks for roots, ruts and stoney river beds etc, but on the 2000 units you have to drill out some holes as well...

Can anybody help me...

JossB
Wales UK
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
joss i cant help you out with the std shim stack as i only have one for the 200MXC but before you crack open a pds, do you all the right tools for the job? you will need a chamber to bleed the air, a 50 mm tube to align the pistons and a special N2 setup to gas it.

On the forks do you mean the holes in the bottom of the damper outer tube?these were 7.5mm i think and the later ones were 8.5mm?Jeremy assured me i wont make any difference.
 
J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
I havn't had any problem changing the oil or servicing and modifying the internals. The total cost was one 500cc bottle of 2.5 weight which was less than 3 pounds in the UK. I am not sure what the best 'of the shelf' oil is but then I change it when the shock begins to go off. I fitted a shrider valve. Used Argon the first time but now have nitrogen. My experience is that the whole KTM range of EXC use the same stacks probable the same as the MXC but not the SX, so could you give me the values.

As to what I want to do. well I realize that the PDS shock has undergone a lot of changes. I have modified it internally to be let the spring do more work on compression. Made the suspension softer. But I am having trouble setting the rebound. Good on corners, ruts roots and stones but not so on acceleration bumps. Packing I think and everytime I change the rebound the compression needs moding... I have a PDS2 and 3 and would like to try a PDS7.

I must say that the back and front are much better than standard and I had the bike 18 months before I started to play with it. I suppose it could be better
but then I do have a lot more ideas. Nice to know that you can wiz past people that you couldn't befor and I have a couple of wins which gives me confidence.

Anyway I am rambling on but do enjoy playing with the setup. Bye the way on the 200forks drilling the 4 holes out to I think 8.5mm and the hole in the base valve to 3mm made a great improvement without spending money and I didn't like the small gap betwean the tube wall and the shims on the midvalve return I think...

regards

JossB

Not so wet and windy Wales (at the moment), UK
 
J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
One more point. the shock works very well in the woods. You can now hit logs and steps and the back end doesn't feel hard. This gives a lot of confidence. I think the PDS setup uses a lot of travel quickly but I don't think the bike suffers from the shock hitting the second piston and then the stop more often than other enduro bikes...

The rebound feels a little quick at times. Some times you can feel it kicking back after a full comression but then it feels like packing on stutter/acceleration bumps...

HELP...
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
I will send you the stack asap , but you will find the pds does have a funny rebound problem-i could never sort it out after years of trying.I think the pds can work reasonable but is more of a compromise than a normal shock.I recently rode a 02KTM125sx with langstons shim stack-stiff, nervous, and harsh -didnt make me think the pds has much of a future.
 
J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
Marcus,

Thanks for the thread link. Now that is exactly the shock I need. Anyone got one they don't need. Chance would be a fine thing.

Now which is correct. 150 or 200 psi and 2.5 or 5 weight. I will stick with 150 psi and 2.5 weight as it is what I use. Its also amazing how people like to waste their money on things like diaphragms, valves etc.!!!

I suppose I could try the 2002 shims in my 2000 shock although I see from the online parts manual the pistons are not the same...

I have done a little bit of porting to my shock to remove the blockages if you understand what I mean. I could try a stiffer spring or increasing the compression to reduce the travel used but this can easily make the suspension feel to hard. I could modify the rebound. What are your thoughts people???

JossB
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
Ive been thinking about your problem-how about a straight rate spring?it would be stiffer at 1st making it pack less on small bumps,and yet it hasnt got a really high rate at the end of the stoke so it wont rebound fast.

Be careful with the progressives as they dont have the correct rates-each one is different.

Use the lightest oil you can get-redline do a 0wt and is available in the UK.Use 150psi.Dont pay attension to that part of the tread as the poster was wrong.Hope this helps.

BTW where are you getting shims from as i have a hard time getting any for a good price?
 
J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
Marcus,

Email me jossbatey@uk2.net for shim info.

I have had my suspicions but can't be sure that shims from different sources give different characteristics!!! I replaces bent mid valve shims and the forks changed...

I don't mind the back end being a bit soft on acc. bumps but when I try to bomb it through the section all hell breaks loose and you get into a tank slapping situation!!! Where's Jeremy...

I will not give up. I will not give up. I will not give up. I will………

JossB
 

marcusgunby

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jan 9, 2000
6,450
2
When you replaced bent midvalve shims, it will feel different as the new ones are not bent.

Tank slappers -yes i remember those-they strangely dissapeared when i got a red bike;)

jerermy is very busy at present.

I am one of the most stubborn people placed on this planet but it beat me, i suspect it will you.My best ever pds shock-which was a copy of one done by a gp team suspension tuner wasnt as good as std jap bike:(

One tip i have heard about is to drill out half of the holes in the comp adjuster piston-make them one drill size larger than std.

IMO and jer wont agree is to got a Ohlins PDS shock as the 2nd piston is smaller and the oil doesnt flow through the shaft-it goes around the top piston.The top piston is more like a bottoming cone on a fork.It has a recess in the shock it goes into when bottomed out.
 
D

drehwurm

Member
Dec 9, 2000
129
0
Servus,

IMO and jer wont agree is to got a Ohlins PDS shock
Click to expand...

I can only second this! Went with an Öhlins PDS from the moment I got my 2001 520EXC. Now the shock is on my 2003 450EXC and to be sure I had Jeremy modify the 2003 WP PDS shock. While the modified WP is worlds better than the stock setup, it still is no match for the Öhlins PDS. To be fair I have to say that the Öhlins was setup by Mark Hammond and I can't comment on a stock Öhlins.

Nevertheless I'm of the oppinion that the Öhlins PDS concept (two different sized pistons) is superior to the WP PDS concept. Also the Öhlins is pretty easy to work on; was the first shock I've ever serviced myself. Just my two cent.

Michael
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Originally posted by jossbuk
I didn't like the small gap betwean the tube wall and the shims on the midvalve return I think...
Click to expand...


What? :p


Anyway guys ITs good to be back.... Now my stance is rather perdictable, however I want to make one thing very clear.. What you guys like and what the US customer who riders our tracks like may be two very different things. I can't and won't argue the point beyound reason.. Michael and I have a solid understanding with each other, and I can't tell you how disapointed I am that my freind Mark builds a better Ohlins than I build a WP... But you know what we can't make everyone happy, espically when we can't be there to set it up.. But Honestly its fine, While in Germany Ryan from the Media Realtions / R&D rode a mutlitude of different suspension including the very intresting Solva stuff as a comparrison to the WP as a way to asses progress.. He was impressed with alot of it. Its allways important to keep an open mind to your competions strength and weaknesses.

BR,
Jer
 
D

drehwurm

Member
Dec 9, 2000
129
0
Servus Jeremy,

Couldn't get your cell phone # to work in Germany and was only able to make it to the Intermot at Saturday - at least it was closer than last time so we may be able to meet personally at the next try :thumb:

I've ridden a few bikes with Sölva suspension, but it is nothing out of this world - like with any other suspension if not setup to ones demands it is hard to make a judgement. After having spent $5.000 you would expect people to rave about their new boingers, but it is really a great quality stuff and many top riders, MX and offroad, use it over here in Europe. Have you ever seen one of their forks from inside?

Michael
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Michael,
No the closest I got personally was the UFO both, and the brouchere. You actually first made me aware of it some time ago. I've studied the brouchere real hard.. LOL and by the looks of it it looks cool. Also Ryan said it was very good, so I guess I'm very curious now myself.. Not that I was any less curious a mounth back really..

Yes hopefully next time. My phone was working to well honestly..... Um I just don't know how I'm going to justifi all the calls to my faimily and freinds from the Hocker Shore tent... :eek:

BR,
Jer
 
J

jossbuk

Member
Mar 5, 2002
22
0
Quote:
Originally posted by jossbuk
"I didn't like the small gap betwean the tube wall and the shims on the midvalve return I think..."

Jeremy I was refering to the 1.65mm between the o/d of the check valve (24mm) and the cartridge tube...

I have compared the different standard shim stacks for 2001sx from Marcus and 2002 which are now published in the online parts manuals. I will check I have the values correct and publish them, but I need the standard shims for the 2000 200 exc and the 2001 exc's

CAN ANYONE HELP PLEASE...

JossB Wales UK.
 

Jeremy Wilkey

Owner, MX-Tech
Jan 28, 2000
1,453
0
Joss,
When I get my new WP CD I'll see what I can do, but I'll e-mail them to you. Also don't be alrmed, you have plenty of clerance, no worries man..

BR,
Jer
 
B

Bud-Man

Member
Dec 5, 2000
139
0
Joss,
I will try to email you some WP shock settings I've measured. Post back if you don't get the email as I'm not sure if I sent it to the correct address! :)
 
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