question for rich

Rich Rohrich said:

Your friend is delusional.

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Good to see you haven't changed since we last talked!

Running 324 in a 2t,did Dave approve this?Not enough cooling distillates,the 527 is blended for 2t's,then start experimenting with the boost!I have basically 1 idea about how much to add,thanks Rich!I do know that a meager 2.4 ounces in the 324 for a 4t and 527 for a 2t shakes a gallon of this fuel alive!Its at its most basic form,others slop in an enormous amount of oxygenate and compensate by dumping high end distillates to make up for not blowing your engine up by advancing the burn!The most basic fuel means there is no CRAP in your combustion chamber or chunks of tar to leave a sparkplug reading!Need the o2 sensor for accurate jetting for sure,I am still using seat and throttle response and keeping it on the fat side.A 190 jet sure blows some awesome flames,it would be ashame if we showed up at Megacross blowing 2 foot flames on the competition!All we need is some disk covers,wonder if Rich has any extras laying around!On a dyno I have seen how a rich burn spikes,this translates to the rider that it is hitting harder,it is hard to sell a proper burn to the rider,it does not spike like that,but instead is a very close and reliable curve,much safer for the bike,rider and tuner!Now how much data collection work has Rich been up to?I can not wait till the moto fairy drops 1500 bucks in my truck,I know what I am gonna buy,and another visit to Dave!He keeps trying to sell me a welder,wonder what that is about,Rich?Did you pull the sparkplug pics because of this?Or for space,they were very good reference!

So a 50/50 mix of race 110 and pump 93 doesn't come out to 101.5 octane?

i ran straight sunoco GT plus unleaded today in the 144....it pinged a bit, had to richen the main a tad.

hot125mod said:

i dont know if anyone wanted it but i posted the specs on u2 in the adv. tech forum so rich is the light end the same thing as the 10% evap point. also what is the best way to tell if the fuel can be used in a motor as far as it not detonating. or nor being adequet enough for that specific application. what i am trying to ask is how could you pick a fuel for someone and have it not totally suck.

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Tough call on the second part of your question.. Try it and cross your fingers ??? LOL

As far as the light ends.... They are at the 10%-50% range and a tad lower.. some stuff boils at 100 degrees or less, awesome throttle response but it needs to be cool.

As for the boys here conversing ... the 537 and XAMAX is awesome. Junior cocktailed 3 parts 537 and 1 part 324 and Xamax at 16:1 for his KTM 250SX at the last race.. He mixed it in front of some non believers... After the event we pulled the plug and the gang checked for spooge and pipe residue.... NONE.
One thing we notice in going from U2 to the Chevron fuels is the jetting with 537 is way leaner and much better snap and power.. For example with U2 we had a 48 pilot and 180 main. With 537 we have a 42 pilot and 170 main.. I can also go to a 40 pilot and 168 main when the temps hit 85+....

I only wish I was closer as the shipping kills me..

Rich Ever mess with Powermist ??? I have a few pails coming that they say is better....

hot125mod said:

on my suzuki i have the main at 165 pilot 45 and the stock needle on the 4th clip with the a/s at 1.5 it runs real good on u2. but it seems to lack some top end idk if i can go to a 162 and have it not explode what do ya think. cyl. temp doesnt go over 170 and also i have the pc works pipe. i have been keeping an eye on that and it isnt going to high and seems to stay dark purple. hardly past the diffusion cone. i told eric before that when i used tt111 my jetting was 1 step leaner on everything he said just richen the needle. i dont want to wreck this one because i just demolished another motor and i put a ton of money in this mod. thank you

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Well IMO you need to brush up on jetting skills. Not being sarcastic but you need to know when to change. To run on the ragged edge with a 125 or even a 250 you need to be willing to jet almost every few rides as the air temps and density changes.

Personally I jet at 70-75 degree weather and low humidity with the choice of fuel I want and an oil ratio of 20-24:1. At this point I lean out every circuit to a point performance suffers. Top end pull you get a pop, pop etc. Then I go one step richer. I lean out the pilot until it is no longer crisp out of a turn...etc etc.. Now I have a base line, this is done normally with stock timing. As the temps change I will tweak by Oil Ratio to 16:1 when I need to lean the mixture a tad or 24-28:1 to richen the fuel/air ratio. I also blend another fuel in now and then. Once temps get more than +/- 10 degrees the wrenches come back out..

If you do not take the time to do alot of testing and adjstment you are playing with a time bomb... How lucky are you ???

Good advise, Mike! :cool:

And I bet you do not have much of a "spooge" problem, even with your generous oil ratios, right? :nod:

Ken it is not about the oil ratio,its about riding a fat bike and running crappy fuel!Them high end distillates and oil is what I believe are chugged out the pipe.A worn engine or other issues and you will not be able to achieve proper jetting.It will often come across like well maybe you are not doing something correctly jetting and low and behold it is another issue!Vp and the others spend lots of money on advertising and pump a lot of money back into the different areas,why?If it was given to me I would take it,if I gotta pay my money for it,well why buy second best?Chevron's product is marketed by another name that escapes me at the moment,but is readily available about everywhere,they are a top worldwide refinery.They make one fuel for 2ts,if you want more oxygen then start experimenting with the boost.I am itching to try the boost recommendation(a little less due to lead,it acts like a catalyst to the boost)in the 535 for the 4t!In its raw form it is just that,fuel with no bs!And their other products,WOAH!!!!Which sheep you follow is your decision,I generally have alarms going off when things are advertised and everybody else is doing it.

W.F.F.R.,

You can believe what ever you want to believe about fuels. You have made it clear to me that you have that all figured out.

We all run race fuel to get the best performance we can. My main goal is to reduce the variables involved with getting my bike (a 2t) to run as well as I can, trying to keep my work to a minimum, so I can enjoy my time at my riding area.

Life is full of variables, and so is riding. I can leave my bike rich to compensate, or I can lean it to a reasonable point, and accept that under certain conditions, I am going to have to make some changes. The brand or type of fuel I run will only have a small impact on this & will not eliminate me having to make changes.

What MikeS is doing is altering the fuel to air ratio without turning a wrench. It makes perfect sense to me as a way to make small changes without having to change the brass, which would then have to be changed back again, at some point.

My comment about spooge was directed towards those that believe that their fuel / oil ratio is responsible for their spooge. I would think that MikeS probably does not have any problems with this, even with oil ratios of 16/1.

Could our bikes run slightly better if we did things differently? Probably. Would we have any more fun riding and bench racing with our buddies? Probably not, IMHO.

W.F.F.R., that is what I was talking about.