question for rich

[hot125mod]

a friend of mine said that he uses a 50/50 mix of 110 and 92 and it comes out to be 112. is that possible? what i think is it will change the A.K.I please help.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

a friend of mine said that he uses a 50/50 mix of 110 and 92 and it comes out to be 112. is that possible?

Your friend is delusional.

 

[sixds]

you cant just add up the octane levels, its an average.

 

[trial_07]

I think it's actually more complicated than that...

 

[hot125mod]

i knew that guy was crazy

 

[hot125mod]

would it change the Anti knock index

 

[Rich Rohrich]

would it change the Anti knock index

AKI = the number at the pump in the US = (RON + MON) /2

Any time you change the RON or MON you change the end result of the equation.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Rich,how many cc's of chevron phillips 20 percent oxygenate boost will it take to bump up oxygenate levels in 355 race fuel to 4 %?

 

[Rich Rohrich]

36.6 ounces (1082 cc) of B02 added to a gallon of 355 fuel will give you 4% oxygen by weight. It basically turns it into a 264 fuel using the numbering system that Dave Redszus came up with. You'll probably need to richen the jetting by about 10% if you do this.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

He was tapped out of 324,I know about the antiquated octane rating crap,have a high compression motor,so I'd try the 355 and see!Well the big O was sorely missed and the higher octane did not do it at all!Now it floors me even more at how in the heck a huge(seemingly) company like vp can market so much bs in their mixes and why people do NOT want to hear it!Every time I talk to Dave about the O,he just smiles and says"just try more!"And I easily get side tracked on the moving the sound waves in pipes,and he honestly seems to detest 2t's!The look on riders faces when burning Chevron-Phillips fuel is funny,say no to 10%!Running white plastics can easily show burning CP fuel rich,can not read plugs anymore,and the Y pipe with a bong near the rear shock reservoir is coming!Now all I need is a streetbike tire the same od as my rear tire and were going to the dyno,I am sure this 450 is closer to 60hp than 50!Rich as always,Thank You and wow,unbelievable!

 

[hot125mod]

so adding the 92 to 110 lowers the octane and AKI also it would lean out the race fuel right? :whoa:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

also it would lean out the race fuel right? :whoa:

What impact it has on the jetting will be totally dependent on the make up of the two fuels. As a VERY GENERAL rule of thumb, adding a percentage of non-oxygenated race fuel to pump fuel will tend to make the bike run RICHER and force you to lean out the jetting in some or all of the circuits. Until you test it yourself you won't know for sure unless you have a lot of data on the individual fuels.

 

[hot125mod]

ok i totally worded that wrong anyways like you said in your article Fuel terminology 1 "Octane boosters and alcohol can change the density of a fuel to a large degree", is that the same for ether like in u2

 

[Rich Rohrich]

ok i totally worded that wrong anyways like you said in your article Fuel terminology 1 "Octane boosters and alcohol can change the density of a fuel to a large degree", is that the same for ether like in u2

The density of the fuel is just a small part of it. The difference in distillation curves of pump fuel and the various race fuels has a much more significant effect on the fuel curve. If you add an ether based compound like MTBE you also add an oxygen molecule which has a large influence on the the fuel curve.


The O in the middle is where the fun starts. ;)


METHYL-tert-BUTYL ETHER (MTBE) Chemical Structure

 

[hot125mod]

dude you totally rock is there anything you dont know thanks again :)

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Yes,thats the stuff!Sit in the gas tank for 8 hours and bye bye good stuff!No more plastic gas tanks,and whoa momma,the smell!VP would not return my e-mail a while back when I asked for a distillation curve compared u4 to 324 Firepower,10% oxygenate in all most all their fuel,324 2.7.I believe between 6 and 8 would frag my piston on 324,but if I watered it down then I could put 10 in,what a bunch of crap!How good is Sunoco products,Thee only other refinery in the U.S. other than Phillips-Chevron!And do not use a plastic ratio rite to measure,need glass beakers!

 

[hot125mod]

Rich do you happen to have a distillation curve for U2 and does U2e have ethenol in it to give it the o2

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Rich do you happen to have a distillation curve for U2 and does U2e have ethenol in it to give it the o2

They should have the U2 data on their website. Last time I looked I didn't see any mention of ethanol in the MSDS for U2e.

 

[bclapham]

the e part of U2e stands for ethanol, same for U4e, but thats been replaced by U4.1 now.

the reason they came out with U2e and U4e was because many states dont allow the sale of MTBE in fuels, whether from the pump or a can.

for this reason, sunoco oxy fuels are all ethanol based; their GT104 is actually very good IMO and at just over $6 a gal, very good value too.

i tried the 324 stuff and for a stock bike to detonate on a straight race fuel is a pretty poor show....when i ran the original U2 in my bike the performance was insane, on most parts of the track the bike would pull a gear higher.....i was racing back then and my riding was so much better than these days but maybe VPs marketing went to my head and i imagined it all.

but these are just my observations and opinions so run what you want.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Now come on Bclapman,how the heck did 324 detonate a piston?Were you putting boost in it,was the engine high compression?When are you coming down to ride,FMX this Sunday!I feel a lot better getting fuel from the Phillips-Chevron research than some company mixing their own blends,and there is the marketing thing!Their coolant is as good or better than engine ice and has a leak detector in the anti-freeze,their oils are unprecedented also,and where is all their advertising?And then there is Dave,I have got to start bringing a tape recorder!http://www.precisionautoresearch.com/ http://fmxparadise.com/

 

[bclapham]

i ran it in a 05rm250 with a stock topend and cylinder, and it detonated, not bad, but its the first time ive ever had detonation running a straight race fuel.

its not that i dislike detonation, since its always a good sign the jetting aint too far off.

- Throttle response (lower numbers = better response)
- Octane rating (higher numbers = higher octane)
- Piston crown cooling (higher numbers provide greater crown cooling via a hook in the end of the distillation curve)

So a fuel like FirePower 324 has :

3 = very sharp throttle response
2 = moderate octane rating
4 = minimal piston crown cooling

This makes it an excellent fuel for a high speed four-stroke like a YZF or CRF but not the best for a high strung two-stroke.

I'll follow up with much more detailed info when I get a chance.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

OH I see!I dare you to try the 537 and Xamax 2t oil!I am running it in a cr-134,unbelievable!

 

[gosdrcrgo]

Does the vp u2e stink up the house like u4? I've been wanting to try it in my ring ding but my wife will burn my bikes if I stink up the house again.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

i ran it in a 05rm250 with a stock topend and cylinder, and it detonated, not bad, but its the first time ive ever had detonation running a straight race fuel.

its not that i dislike detonation, since its always a good sign the jetting aint too far off.

Bruce - Were you running the SST pipe at that point?

 

[bclapham]

Bruce - Were you running the SST pipe at that point?

i havent run an SST in years- never had one on the RM.....if i remember, it was the PC pipe...it has a slightly smaller outlet on the silencer that makes the engine want to deto a bit (in sand with a 110/93 50-50 mix)....i am sure its a good fuel, its just ive never had anything ping on straight race gas before....if i could buy the stuff for $6 a gallon from the shop on my way home from work i would run it, LOL!!!