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Message: [QUOTE="wake_rider, post: 1380409, member: 75633"] Is there a particular reason you want a 450f over a 250 smoker? If weight is a big issue to you, a smoker will physically be lighter, and they 'feel' much lighter while riding. So if weight is your issue, maybe open your field of search a little. If you're particularly looking for a thumper for a reason, then don't look at weight as much of a deciding factor. Just as responses above have stated, looking mostly at the overall condition of the bike as well as doing your research on that specific bike will be the best case. [/QUOTE]