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Message: [QUOTE="Patman, post: 178150, member: 16962"] It's neat to see such different ends of the spectrum. So why is it a completly seperate entity and not a part of offroad riding in your view? (those that feel it's its own entity). And those that see it as a branch of what we all do here, what's your justification? What about the technology? Pretty vast differences in the weights of say a 250 trials bike 158# vs 213# for a MX model 250. Plastic doesn't account for that much, pretty much all the same parts are there frame, wheels, engine,...? So where's the majority of that extra 55# at? The seat?:confused: [/QUOTE]