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Message: [QUOTE="Patman, post: 178631, member: 16962"] As are the honda CR's. True but the plastic of the larger tank and shrouds and number plates are a few pounds at best. True but what are we looking at weightwise between the two brake systems? MAYBE 3 or 4 pounds tops? No subframe is a decent chunk. Rear tire is tubeless. Swing arm is a little less beefy and the suspension parts are somewhat smaller. but come on we're talking about the weight of an average 7 or 8 year old kid here. Just as a little bit of extra info the 213# weight is for a 2002 CR250R (claimed by Honda) and the 158# is for my Montesa (claimed in the manual). Both have twinspar aluminum frames and even the engine in my 315R is CR250 based as Montesa is ownded by Honda and everything on the bike is HRC.:cool: [/QUOTE]