What new Trials bike to buy

[TVRider]

I am in the market for a new bike and need some advice from you guys that have been riding the modern stuff for a while. My experience is mostly in Vintage. I have a 98 GasGas now. The dealer in my area can get me any brand but he recommends the Beta, Scorpa and Montesa, in that order. His logic is that Beta and Montesa have the best reliability/quality and Scorpa is a close 3rd. He says that because Montesa hasn't changed their bike in years, the design is falling behind. He also really likes the linkageless rear shock on the Beta and Scorpa. I'm not sure I like the idea of a left hand kickstart (Beta). I have talked to Adrian at Lewissport in NewMexico and he thinks it's more like Montesa, Scorpa and Beta in that order. Neither has told me how differently the bikes ride. I ride the novice line in Modern and the 2 line in Vintage trials. I am short and stocky and pretty athletic (5'8" and 185 lbs.) I have just gotten back into all this in the last six months. I rode alot in the mid 70's. Price is not much of an issue, I am more interested in the bike that is easy to maintain and will allow me to have the most fun and improve quickly. Please give me some feedback.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[wayneg]

The best thing you can do is have a ride on each brand. If your dealer doesn't have them all in stock then ask some of your buddies at the next trial you attend for a short ride.

One brand will probably stand out as the one that you want to own.

 

[huntmaster]

Tom, I'm in a very similar situation, considering my first modern bike after starting off with twin shockers in the 70's as a kid, and riding the same bikes in vintage events more recently. I've been kind of gathering information from various riders on the newer bikes also.

As with other segments of the sport, you'll get widely varying feedback and opinion on brand selection, from equally talented and experienced riders.
One thing that seems safe to say is there really are no real dogs out there, which wasn't always the case. The best bike for you, won't necessarilly be the best bike for a different rider, and will also depend on what characteristics are important to you. Linkage wear is something you hear about from just about every design, so any new linkless designs may have some merit. For overall build quality, fit, finish and detailing the Montesa with it's HRC motor sounds very good. Some would rank the Scorpa last here, and everything else in between, but there are no doubt those that will argue the point!

Regards, Doug

 

[Patman]

If I were going out today to get a brand spankin' new ride it would be tough to decide between the Montesa and the Beta. I'm totally satisfied with my Montesa, it's an extremely well put together piece as you'd expect from HRC. It's so much more capible than I am that if it is a little aged it doesn't matter, heck it works fine for Dougie! I've always found the Beta's very suductive looking and am seriously tempted to go that route when I get a new bike. The new design looks to be an improvement without going so radical that the end user is a beta (pun intended) tester. The way I see it getting the most fltweight bike is moot when I could take my current combination and loose #20 myself. The Scorpa is a very interesting design and I do like them but they don't seem to age as gracefully as the other two. You know the more you make me think about it the more tempted I am got sell my Monty and go get a Beta, geez thanks alot! :)

 

[TVRider]

Patman and Wayne,

Thanks for both of your inputs. You guys contribute a lot to this forum, keep it coming! Wayne, don't you own a Beta now? How tough is that left foot kick? The dealer tells me he just stands beside the bike and kicks it right footed. I appreciate the comment regarding how the looks hold up. I know that the better your bike looks, the better you feel about it, etc. I want something that will look good in a couple of years as well.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[JTT]

I tend to agree with Wayne on this one...there is no substitute for actually riding them. From the little I have seem, Patman is right about the Scorpa's appearance in the long term. That tank arrangement tends to get scraped up as far as I've seen. That said, those who own them seem to love them (apparently a very nice smooth motor). I don't think it would likely take you long to adapt to the left kick thing either.

I don't necessarily agree on the weight thing though, as I can tell you from experience that a few pounds goes a long way. I had a Sherco last year, while at the same time a new 280Pro. The weight difference on paper seemed insignificant, but when riding back to back, was VERY noticable. I rode the Pro most of the season, then went back to the Sherco for one of the last events. I can tell ou that I was noticably more tired after the event and actually had some muscle stiffness the next day (this rarely happens to me....riding spode line and all ;) ). Really drove home the weight thing to me. The weight thing seems more noticable, at least to me, with trials bikes than "normal" dirt bikes, as I have never really noticed 5lbs +/- on "normal" dirt bikes. More akin to MTBs maybe. :think:

You are right that there is not a "bad" one in the lot though, just the one that fits you best. Happy shopping!!

 

[Patman]

FLASH: This just in.......

I just got my Feb Trials Competition and what happens to be in it? A multipage test of the 2003 Montesa! They were very impressed with the 315R. Raves about it's suspension, specifically addresses the excellent wear provided by the special linkage bearings and forged & billet linkage pieces. The engine is a knock out and they end with "Once again the Montesa ranks as one of the most solid trials investments you can make - great value, great quality and supurb resale value."

Last month was the Beta BTW. So I think I now have tests on all of the '03 models. If you woud like I'll scan and forward any of them next week when I'm back in the office.

 

[JTT]

I love my Trials Comp paper, but all the tests sound like that. :think: ...although I agree with the last comment.

 

[bagger]

back when i was in the markett for a new bike i rode the 01 montessa and the 97 gas gas back to back to back.i could not tell the differance between them.the montessa is getting a little old but yes the quality is there.the new gas gas is much lighter and should have all of last years bugs worked out.the beta also seams to be a nice bike and i like the fit and feel of it.ride them all and dont let anybody tell you this or that is better.there all good and the dealer support for all is great as far as i know.

 

[Patman]

Originally posted by JTT
I love my Trials Comp paper, but all the tests sound like that. :think: ...although I agree with the last comment.

LOL! That's true JTT, I went through the last few in the evening and they were all pretty complimentary. After going over them together it did seem that the Monty go a little more feel good spin to it but not by a lot. I guess it's hard to be too negative when all the bikes are so good out of the crate. It would be interesting to see a "long term" test of sorts as to how all of them stacked up after a season or two, I think that's when overall quality starts to show through.

 

[wayneg]

They all are very good straight out of the box, its just that each manufacturer does things slightly differently. There will be one (hopefully) that just plain feels right for you. The bike has to be able to do want you want it to do, but also be something that 'lights you up' and is something that just makes you want to go out to the shed and ride the thing (exotic is one of the words that usually best describes my feelings on this subject).

Similarly no one bike is completely perfect, and each brand does have its flaws.

I like my Beta firstly because of the build quality of the frame (I crash a lot, so a strong frame is important), secondly because of the linkless rear
suspension, thirdly because of the feel of the motor and the type of delivery of power. Lastly because of the support of the local importer. I really
hate the silly side access air box (mines a year 2000 model), as it seems to collect water even in dry conditions (it would be possible to collect water in this air box even in the middle of the desert - such is the strength of the design - maybe they should just call it a 'water box'). I will change this for the newer '03 air box, mudguard and sub frame when I get some more money (which shouldn't be long as the whole lot including screws and bolts is about NZ$380, which works out to be about US$190). I also think the upside down forks will be a problem soon, with leaking seals as things wear out.

In NZ the support offered by each importer is patchly to say the least as each importer is basically doing it as a hobby (~300 trials riders in the whole country!!). This is to be expected as for them its a part time business, and hard to manage with other work committments, family etc (I wouldn't want to do it ;) ). This means that the relationship between buyer and importer becomes more critical, and I'm happiest dealing with the Beta importer, which has an influence on the brand of bike that I would buy. I could deal with some of the other importers with very few problems as my expectations are not very high. This becomes an issue for some of the other guys over here who have much higher expectations on the level of service that they get. Because some of the guys work in the motor industry their expectations are high from dealing with other parts suppliers, and it their relationship with their local trials importer just seems to frustrate them 9 times out of 10.

This shouldn't effect you at all because of the quantities of bikes sold in the US and the professionalism of the importers, as they are running their operations as a primary source of income. I do think however that the trails bikes are still weird and rare enough for you to research the local dealers, and deal with one that you are most comfortable with. I realise that in the States you will have overnight or next day delivery for spare parts from anywhere in the country, and also that the strength of the US$ makes air freight from Spain or Italy less of an issue (unlike the usual 6 weeks of sea freight for parts to float all the way to NZ!!!). It may be something that does effect your decision on which bike you decide to get though.

The other main influence on my decision to buy a Beta was the fact that they make a 199cc bike. The smaller displacement bikes really suit the lower grades of rider coupled with the fact that I am only 5'8" and weigh roughly 160lbs, so I don't really need 321cc to get reasonable performance. When first looking to upgrade from my old bike I didn't really think 160cc would do it for me, but after having some short rides on Dave Trustrum's 160cc Gas Gas, I believe that would've been just as good a choice. The little Beta has helped me improve my skills to the point where now I would be quite comfortable on a 250cc or larger machine, and I think that I have picked up these skills at a quicker rate than if I had been faced with more power than I needed. If you've been riding quite a while, then this sort of thing wouldn't really matter.

Another thing that would effect my decision making a little bit is that I'm sort of used to the weight distribution on the Beta, which seems to place a bit more weight on the front wheel. This makes adjusting to other brands a little bit weird for me, and it takes a while to get my body in the right place to stop plowing.

My overall thoughts on the brands are as follows; (extremely biased and not really useful because of my limited riding ability!!!)

Beta - Like the frame and feel (suits someone short like me!) Dodgy Italian electrics (!!!??!!). Had a short ride on the new '03 model and was impressed with both the suspension (much improved) and the motor (I tried a 250 which was smooth down low, and not too scary on top!), and if buying today I don't think I'd bother with the 200 and go straight to the 250 as I felt it was much smoother down low than previous models. Left hand kick is not a problem as I can easily start my bike with either foot (multi talented aren't I :silly: ). This is less of a problem than you'd think as it doesn't take long to adjust to.

Gas Gas - The new Pro's look much better, but I've not ridden a Pro as there are only about 3 or 4 in the country for some reason, and none of them are scratched enough for the owners to let me try!!!

Sherco - Don't like the frame, feel that the power is sort of smooth and progressive, but not what I'm used to - just different. Extremely light.

Scorpa - Nice, but wouldn't like to try and work on one, everything seems too cramped together. Felt really light - love the footpegs!! I would opt for the less aggressive version as the Racing version would probably be too much for me. Liked the fact that you could upgrade the fuel capacity and install a seat easily.

Montessa - Don't like the feel of the bike as they kind of feel awkward to me, I had problems turning compared to my Beta, also maybe not quite as much steering lock. I would miss my very low first gear too much as I use it in creeks a lot!!! Quality wise is the best on the market. I think these bikes would suit a taller rider compared with the Beta, which is only probably a change of handlebars anyway.

I am a Clubman level rider, which over here means that I only have to ride over very tiny obstacles and the emphasis is more on turning, and off-cambers so that would be the main priority for me. We also have lots of mud and slippery tree roots where we normally ride, so tractability is also a priority. I'm not so concerned with 12' splatters, except for finding a nice safe place to watch them from!!! :laugh:

 

[TVRider]

Wayne,

Great feedback, wow is your day job writing? ;) The more I read the more I lean toward the Beta. I just need to get a ride on one now to see how I like it.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[wayneg]

Yes ride them. Its because of these subtle weight distribution differences and the way the power is delivered that you'll see which one suits you the best (apart from the emotive argument). Obviously the setup of the controls and carb jetting may effect how comfortable you are on the bike, so adjust them if possible to suit you best.

When I buy my next bike, which will be at the end of the year, it will be the 250cc Beta Rev3. There I've said it! I hope 'the management' isn't listening as I'm sure she'll have something to say about that :eek:

 

[David Trustrum]

Wayne if you are only 160lbs then I’ll eat your airbox hence solving a problem! :debil:
Or be upset, as I can only just remember a time when I thought I was 160. Have you noticed there’s only so many clothes you can take off at the chemist before you start getting funny looks? Almost got on one of those ones that checks your weight to height measurement but realised I didn’t want to pay for a machine to insult me. :ugg:

Our Beta dealer explained once that the LHS kickstarter was so if you stall & are balancing with the clutch in & foot & hand brake pulled to hold you in place then the only spare limb is the Left foot.

Fine. :silly:

My argument is that if you are good enough to start your bike , a high compression 250 with a 4” long lever on the cackhanded side whilst balancing - then why the hell did you stall it in the first place?!??

I had an ancient aircooled Beta & the left hand kickstart drove me to distraction I must admit. My GG200 starts just so much easier that it really makes a ride so much more pleasant when you get stuck in some snotty little area, that you can start the damn thing rather than puffing yourself before you get to try & get out of where you messed up & still are.

This said the newer Betas start much easier & the 200s are easier than the 250s. This is less of an issue if you are just doing competitions.

Try it I guess.

 

[wayneg]

I don't know - I'm 11.5 stone, and theres 14lbs per stone so that works out to 161lbs. I have lost some weight recently, and the tyre around my waist has deflated a little :)

 

[David Trustrum]

That’s not fair!

Hope the airbox isn’t fattening, that’ll widen the gap further. :(

 

[TexKDX]

I was with a guy riding a trial this weekend. In his family stable he has a Beta Techo and two 315s, late 90s bikes. He bought a slightly used 2002 Scorpa and was riding it this season (season has started in TX already). He rode the last two seasons on a very used 315. He rides the Senior Amateur line now and rides the Int line non-comp.

I asked him how he liked the Scorpa and he said he did like the bike, but was going back to Montesa due to the overall build quality and integrated look/feel of the Monty. He said the Scorpa seemed like the motor was kinda stuck in the frame and that alot of the fasteners were of low quality and hard to line up parts during regular maintence.

Another morning rider I know (sold this guy his '02 Scorpa) went to the Scorpa for 2002 from a 2000 315. Again, morning Amateur line rider. Quite simply, he fell on his ass multiple times at the first 5 trials and in practice alot. The transition was not easy for him. After riding the bike some, it is my observation that the thing has some wierd handling characteristics. When turning, sometimes the head tube feels like it wants to keep going staight and lift pressure off the inside of the tires. Kinda hard to explain, but for amateur-intermediate types of lines and skills where hopping the front and rear are not done the bike just is not as friendly handling of a bike.

On the other hand, I can jump on a Rev3 and go ride the thing. Both Beta and Montesa outsource the frame fabrication to Verlicchi in Italy, so the build quality of these two chassis are similar in that respect. Also keep in mind the fuel tank is enclosed in the frame in these bikes, whereas the Scorpa tank fits over the frame. My friend who was crashing alot on the '02 did damage the tank early on in a relatively minor getoff, and my 315 frame has its share of marks on the side near the tank.

As a new rider, quite honestly it may be hard to tell the difference in the handling/motors of the three bikes.

All that said, the three are all very good motorcycles and can be competitive at the national level in the right hands. The Scorpa and the Beta are better used bike buys as the Monty tends to maintain a healthy margin in this catagory. A friend of mine just sold his '01 315 for $4000.

Now to the opinion part - I ride the Monty because a) I like the build quality, b) I like the handling, c) I like the motor, d) I like the bottoming protection of the suspension which makes it a good trail bike, e) I like the parts availability and importer support, f)I like the way it looks. No, it is not the lightest bike on the market, but the only place this makes a potential difference is on some really advanced techniques on very tall steps.

I spent last weekend with both the Montesa and Scorpa importers and believe both bikes have good support in this area. Beta went thru a recent change in this regard and I cannot tell you how this part is working out.

YMMV, no brand bashing here, JM insignificant somewhat informed O.

PS - I think the Scorpa is a really cool looking and sounding bike...

 

[mdkuder]

I looked at buying a trials bike last year but the funds weren't available. But based on what I learned at the time I was leaning toward the Montessa or the Sherco.

 

[JTT]

I had a 2000 Sherco and loved it! Excellent beginner bike, very forgiving and smooth. Although after riding a Pro, the Sherco seemed very large (long, heavy and slow steering/motor). Still think it is an excellent bike though, as as far as support, there are few who provide the level of support to the sport, and/or riders than does Ryan Young (Sherco importer).

 

[TooBadBrad]

I ride about the same level as you, and I really like the smooth and abundant power of my Sherco 290. I have a GG 250, and have riden a Montessa 315, the sherco feels lightest, best brakes, smaller overall feel. Have had absolutly no problems or breakdowns

 

[JTT]

Brad, you need to try a Pro ;) Makes the Sherco feel big and heavy. I do agree with the smoothness of the 290 and I would also have to give it the nod on stability over the Pro.