When will I stop crashing so much???!!!

4EverOrange · May 13, 2003

Originally posted by bbbom
Standing is the proper form but for me, it depends on the hill.

I know this in my head, but when going down steep hills again that fear factor sets in and I just can't bring myself to stand. Even though I know standing is more stable, it just doesn't seem that way when I am going down the hill. :ugg:

It's that freaking fear that gets in the way. lol

Originally posted by altagirl
Anyway, if you're riding with the goal being "not falling" you're never going to improve (I don't anyway).

I don't think about falling until after the fact. When I am riding all I concetrate on is what I need to be doing right, not what I need to not do. That is a lesson I learned from skiing. :) Now if I could only remember to only look where I want to go....maybe those blasted boulders wouldn't get in my way! ;)

firecracker22 · May 13, 2003

Tie1on, welcome and sounds like you're having a blast. Definitely challenge yourself as much as you can and still stay safe--you'll never get better if you don't try it. Sounds like you don't have a problem there.

As for downhills, if it's super steep, I click down into 1st gear and stay completely off the clutch. Even if you ride the brakes, the engine will stay running due to the down hill, and if it does die, just leave it in gear and feather the clutch to control speed. Then you can compression start it at the bottom or wherever things smooth back out.

I went riding with a friend who has been a pro mountain biker and pro dirt biker and learned a LOT from her. She had me standing so far back on the bike on downhills that if I had sit down, I would have been on the rear fender. That keeps things much more stable and you don't feel like you're careening out of control. She also said brake where you can and ride it out where you can't. Look for places where you have traction, hit the brakes there, and stay away from the brakes (especially the front) in the loose or bouncy stuff. I have certainly gotten better at downhills (always a big hurdle for me) when I remember to do all that stuff. Stay loose too--if you tense up, you grab the handlebars too hard and the front end will do freaky stuff.

Off my podium now, sorry. :confused:

zero_it · May 13, 2003

Tillamook is a tough place to ride. Don't feel bad about crashing or getting stuck there. That place has hills that don't quit, deep ruts and some seriously snotty mud - a few key ingredients for a potentially crappy day! The highest DNF rates I've ever seen at National ISDE Qualifiers was at Tillamook in 1994. Even the tough guys have a bad day there when it rains. When it's somewhat dry Tillamook is an absolute hoot to ride, though. Keep going back there and work on your basic skills. Concentrate on getting good and then on getting fast. And remember.... If you never crash, then you'll never know how fast you can be!

KDXgirl · May 14, 2003

I find it easiest not to fight down hills, stand up and lean back on the pegs, if your bike starts to lock up a bit just feather the clutch and just go with it. The more you think about it the harder it is!

Michelle · May 14, 2003

When I first started riding, I had a riding buddy who'd been riding about 1-1/2 years or so. She had a friend who'd been riding about 5 years and was good. Anyway, my buddy asked her friend how long it'd taken her to get that good & her friend reckoned 3 years or so.
B. decided that 3 was some sort of magic number and after she'd been riding 3 years, she was suddenly going to become good, too. Nice theory, totally unrealistic. It depends on how much you ride, how much you push yourself etc etc etc. I don't think there's a time limit. Some riders will be naturals & have an easier time of it, some of us will be pathetic for the rest of our lives, some will work damned hard at it & be great or not so great.

As for, when will you stop crashing as much? One day you'll realise that, hey, wow, I only crashed twice today instead of my normal 100 times and then you'll think back & wonder when you did stop crashing as often.

In a way, I like the times I crash often as I then realise it doesn't hurt as much as I think it's going to hurt and push myself more. In the times that I'm not crashing every weekend, I start getting paranoid about falling off and if anything, go slower (if that's possible). If I come off at least once a day without major injuries, I'll push myself more because I think that it won't hurt much. (If that doesn't make sense, I'm not surprised, it's hard to explain). I'm currently going through a no-crash period and that limits me to trying out different things - I don't want to try something different in case I hurt myself.

One thing I found hard to comprehend, was the fact that EVERYONE crashes/falls off at some point - even the top riders. The better the rider, the quicker they seem to be able to get going again. Probably to do with experience at falling off ;)

As for downhills, I hate them, unless they're long, flowing downhills. It's the shorter, sharper ones that get me. I can't get myself to stand as I feel I have more control on the rear brake sitting. Definitely my major weak point.

Hope that helps some
Michelle

squeaky · May 14, 2003

I totally agree with you Michelle. If I don't crash/fall I feel like I'm not pushing hard enough...I rode for the first time this weekend in some serious deep, goopy mud. I had such a hard time with it, kept falling, stalling, etc...I finally listened to the advice that was given to me "When in doubt, gas it". After my second time through the mud I didn't fall as much, but damned if I don't make myself go back there and try try try until I get through it without falling once.

A couple of weeks ago I went on the Paragon trip. I fell so many times it wasn't even funny. I feel in everything from loose sand, to mud, to rocks. But after two days of riding in completely new environment I felt a lot more confident. And after seeing people I was with, who are much better riders than me, crash and fall I actually felt better (that sounds so rude!!!).

My point is...the more you crash and fall the harder it makes you want to work and tackle those things that usually kick your butt!!!

AnneBrooks · May 14, 2003

The more seat time you can get, the better off you will be. If you can ride every weekend, do it. This will build you confidence and you will stop falling so much. And riding with better riders than you always helps too. We all have bad days even if we have been riding for years. Just hang in there and have fun!

All good advice on the downhills---try to stand and get your weight back and feather the clutch and do not lock up the rear or front brakes.

TIE1ON · May 14, 2003

Thanks for all the advice and welcoming me to the board. I've been into hard core rock crawling for the past 8 years and wanted to add a new outdoor hobby that I can do in the Winter since the Rubicon and Fordyce are only open 5 months out of the year! LOL

As far as feathering the clutch, I never would have thought of doing that on downhills. Does it make a difference that I'm riding a 4 stroke? I guess the whole point is to gear down and stay off the brakes as much as possible :D

Fe_princess · May 14, 2003

Ah downhills...Arch nemisis to many :(
I very, very rarely use the front brake.
I surf it with my back brake and let up when I get too sideways.
I do ride a two-stroke.
But what bbbom said about position on the bike is so true. If the hill is super steep just sit back as far as possible, and if you can stand just try to put your weight towards the back. This will give you more stability.
I used to get really, really freaked out at downhills. I'd stop at the top, heart beating in my throat and refused to take my hand off the front brake, well we all know that goes... :whiner:
Just keep your attention on what's ahead of you. I find my riding is extremely fluid when I'm looking ahead. As soon as I start looking somewhere off the trail, that's where I end up.
Esp. on a downhill, it's like connecting the dots instead of a daunting descent.
It's really fun dirt biking! Always remember to have fun as your goal! :flame:

4EO, as for falling :ugg:
I find that If I'm starting to fall a lot, I'm done.
It means I'm tired. This is the time that my mind/body coordination is slowing down and I make dumb mistakes that could hurt me.
I started working out 2 months ago for upper body strength and I've found that I can ride longer, more aggresively and my ability to keep my attention on the trail is astounding.

squeaky · May 14, 2003

Originally posted by Fe_princess

4EO, as for falling :ugg:
I find that If I'm starting to fall a lot, I'm done.
It means I'm tired. This is the time that my mind/body coordination is slowing down and I make dumb mistakes that could hurt me.
I started working out 2 months ago for upper body strength and I've found that I can ride longer, more aggresively and my ability to keep my attention on the trail is astounding.

I completely agree...I realized when I went to Paragon (my first big ride) that I didn't start falling until I got tired. That's when I started making mistakes and doing stupid stuff that I never would've done before.

As for working out, I try to attend the gym at least 3 times a week...It completely helps. I find the biggest help is the rowing machine and at least 1/2 hour of cardio...it keeps my form as proper as possible. Just keep working and you'll be fine! And I'm no expert...but I've learned a lot in the past couple months!

bbbom · May 14, 2003

Excellent points Fe_P!

Look ahead as far as you can and where you want to go instead of where you don't want to go. At the TTC we were all crossing a pretty good sized rocky creek crossing (round slimy rocks everywhere) and I was doing pretty well until I noticed a huge pool just to the right, I looked right at it and sure enough that's where the bike & I went. I got stopped just before dropping the front tire into the pool which was about 5 feet deep!!! I pulled the bike (thankfully it was a trials bike & very light) back and rerouted my line. I went throught the crossing again to prove to myself that I could do it and I was determined to look across the creek - worked like a charm!

The 4 stroke will actually make downhills somewhat easier since it will provide some engine braking.

As far as getting tired causing you to fall, that is definitely a factor for me also and it snowballs, each fall makes me even more tired so I fall more!

Working out is soooo important! Women generally lack upper body strength so it's important to build that up somehow - rowing machines are great and weight lifting is even better or just ride, ride, ride.

I try to work out everyday for lunch usually mountain biking if the weather is nice and even when it isn't so nice if I just need to get outside. But, I have the luxury of a gym with showers at the office and some great mtb trails less than 10 minutes drive from the office (and a boss that doesn't mind my long lunch hours as long as I get my job done well - especially when he's out golfing ;)).

I lift 2 - 3 days a week during the winter with cardio either in the gym or on the mtb on the other days. This time of year we try to get in a couple rides during the week and at least one ride on the weekends so I only lift once a week to try & save my arms for riding. I concentrate on my upper body because that is what usually gets tired first. I also do a lot of ab & lower back work to protect my back.

I worked really hard this winter and I could really tell the difference on my first ride early this spring when we went to the desert. I felt like I was in control of the bike instead of just hanging on. At least until my wrists flared up again! I think they have improved but I still have a lot of work to keep them from bothering me on long rides - especially DOWNHILLS!!!! :)

Fe_princess · May 14, 2003

Hey thanks Lori.
Even working out twice a week, I noticed a difference.
I went into the gym being sore from riding just so I could tell a trainer exactly which muscle I was using.
I work out my deltoids, pectorials, trapazoids and back muscles(don't know what they're called). These muscles are weak. :whiner: I do 1/2 hour of cardio(after my heart beat is at max bpm) and do squats for my leg power.
My last and weakest area is my stomach which totally affects how long I can stand on the bike which directly affects my lower back.
If I'm wearing out, I'm not riding well.
There is a marked difference in what I can ride over (logs, rocky technical, creeks, steep downhill switchbacks, etc...).
You will open up a whole new level of riding for yourself if you are more fit.
You don't have to be olympic athlete either.
I used to think, I need more finesse, more technique but it won't matter if I don't have the strength to max out my potential.
I gotta tell ya...I love downhills now :yeehaw:

bbbom · May 14, 2003

Sounds like a good workout routine, I love squats but I've always liked to work my legs so now I'm concentrating on my upper bod. Those back muscles are probably your Lat's (Latisimus Dorsi) the muscle opposite your pecs - you feel them with pulldowns.

One thing to keep in mind is that a strong core (abs & lower back) help in your overall strength and help prevent injury. If you feel that your abs are lacking but you work them then you may need to add some lower back excersizes - back extensions, superman's, good mornings & stiff legged deadlifts are all good as long as you do them in strict form.

If you have a trainer let them show you how to do them. I like back extensions - they really emphasize the lower back. I also like deadlifts but they bring the hamstrings into play and I don't get the burn in my lower back like the extensions.

firecracker22 · May 14, 2003

I miss working out, maybe after I move I can afford to join a gym. All I do now are pushups and riding, though I'm going to start mountain biking.

When I WAS lifting, I worked pecs, shoulders (like military press or something), triceps, biceps, forearms, traps--all the same stuff you guys do. And squats, hamstring curls and calf lifts for legs.

Bbbom, am I stupid? When did you go to the TTC? Also you mentioned in another post "Karl's new bike"--what did he get?

Can you explain those back exercises some more? My lower back is ALWAYS super sore after riding, and I'm not quite sure how to work it out except for reverse situps. I'm looking for something I can do at home without equipment for now until I join a gym again.

4EverOrange · May 14, 2003

I have just lost *almost* 30lbs. That has done wonders for my riding. My endurance has really improved. Unfortunantly, I haven't been working out as much I as I should. I am sure I would have made my weight loss goal had I hit the gym more than 3x's since January. I just can't find the motivation!

firecracker22 · May 14, 2003

Congratulations!

KDXgirl · May 15, 2003

Feathering the clutch does work, it stops the wheels from locking up giving you a bit better control.

squeaky · May 15, 2003

I think that would be great if someone could explain those back exercises...I am in really good physical shape, but I have a bad back due to a car accident a couple years ago. I have noticed the ONLY part of my body that kills me during/after riding is my lower back (and wrists, but that's another story all together...). Any advice/help would be great!

bbbom · May 15, 2003

Yes, congratulations on your "loss" 4EO!!! Maybe your lack of motivation is similar to my lack of motivation on getting projects done at my house, I worked so hard for so long just to get the darn thing built that once we moved in I didn't feel like doing ANYTHING on it. Maybe you just need some time to reenergize yourself.

Firecracker, I can't remember if I told you about TTC or not!!? We went April 25 - 26 th, it was Karl's Christmas present. We had a great time & learned a lot that we need to learn. His new bike is an 00CR500AF that he found here in Spokane, all set up like he wanted. Sweet bike and it feels much easier to ride in the tight twisties than mine. Guess I better stop crashing so I can justify getting a nicer bike! :scream:

As for the back exercises this site shows several lifts for the lower back and any other bodypart there is http://bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Lower+Back

I usually use light weights when I use weights and shoot for 3 sets of 15 or more reps. Try to concentrate on contracting the muscles in your lower back and maintaining the natural curve at the same time. Don't round your lower back in any of the excercises and as always, if you feel pain STOP!!! I don't mean burning like muscles working but pain like something is wrong. If you have a back problem already check with your doc before trying any excercises maybe try the stretching excercises here to start:

http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-info/fitness/back/strength.html

If you don't have any equipment you can do Superman's. I usually shoot for 3 sets of 15 reps really concentrating on contracting the lower back muscles:
http://www.oregonlive.com/shapingup/index.ssf?/shapingup/commuter/six.html

When doing any ab work make sure you aren't pulling on your neck or overstressing your lower back. You should feel the work in your abs. I like reverse crunches but I mix in a lot of different ab excercises.

AnneBrooks · May 15, 2003

I am not sure how tall you are, but I find when I ride my 'back up' bike, which is a KDX, and also riding my Honda XR250 before, I am a bit tall for it. When I stood up I would be hunched just slightly---but enough to make my lower back hurt quite a bit after a ride. I bought a MX waistband thingy (sorry, I can't remember what is is called). Anyhow, this helps keep my back straight and it usually doesn't hurt after a ride.

altagirl · May 15, 2003

Originally posted by AnneBrooks
II bought a MX waistband thingy (sorry, I can't remember what is is called). Anyhow, this helps keep my back straight and it usually doesn't hurt after a ride.

Kidney Belt?

firecracker22 · May 15, 2003

Originally posted by AnneBrooks
I bought a MX waistband thingy (sorry, I can't remember what is is called). Anyhow, this helps keep my back straight and it usually doesn't hurt after a ride.

I can't wear the darn things. No matter what type it is or how tight I put it, it ends up wrapped around my ribcage. I ended up taking it off last time I wore it (about a year ago) and haven't put it on since.

altagirl · May 16, 2003

I have an Azonic Z-5 body armor jacket, which has a kidney belt integrated into the spine protector - that way it can't ride up, which is nice.

AnneBrooks · May 16, 2003

Yes, thanks--Kidney belt. Mine does ride up sometimes, but I find it also helps keep my pants up in addition to supporting my back.

Altagirl---that sounds neat, I will have to check it out because I just found a crack in my chest protector so I will have to get another one soon. I have a Thor Aftershock now and it it too long, as it gets caught on my pants in the back. I tried the Acerbis Lady Fusion and it was way too short, as was the by Fox for ladies.

dirty~d~ · May 16, 2003

The misconception of lower back strength (or lack thereof) is that it is controlled by JUST the lower back muscles... not the case. Keep your stomach muscles toned... that is 50% of your lower back strength. Balance is the key to muscles. ;) One simple, basic exercise for the stomach is to try focusing on keeping the muscles flexed while you're sitting or standing still.

When will I stop crashing so much???!!!

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