Why not 2-strokes anymore??

XRpredator · Jan 22, 2008

Mully said:
To me it comes down to this:

Some people parrot what they read in the magazines or online, and others know things from actual experience.
Some know things from research or experiments that comes from being around bikes or in the industry for many years, not just a couple.

In other words;
Someone in this thread needs a cracker.......................

Mully

I don't need no cracker,

I have actual experience,

and I likes me them 4-strokes,

and two strokes suck.

I love you all

your pal,

pred

Mully · Jan 22, 2008

Reesknight said:
Now Mully is trying to sell crackers, geez. You greedy bastages! ;)

Anything for a buck............ :)

flynbryan · Jan 22, 2008

XRpredator said:
I don't need no cracker,

I have actual experience,

and I likes me them 4-strokes,

and two strokes suck.

I love you all

your pal,

pred

I've owned the 2-strokes..... I've owned the 4-strokes..... and 4-strokes suck.

But, I guess your still ok Pred. :nener:

griffbones · Jan 22, 2008

All this talk about crackers...............I want to know where is the TOAST!

XRpredator · Jan 22, 2008

flynbryan said:
I've owned the 2-strokes..... I've owned the 4-strokes..... and 4-strokes suck.

so do sport quads

IndyMX · Jan 22, 2008

I just hate orange.. :whoa:

defo26 · Jan 22, 2008

I have a crf250 2007 and I actually thought the 125 2 smoke was easier to ride. The bike is lighter and you can feel the difference. I last longer on a 125 without getting tired then on a 250 4 stroke.

flynbryan · Jan 22, 2008

XRpredator said:
so do sport quads

Ahh..... I admire your attention to detail. Touche. :laugh:

SpDyKen · Jan 22, 2008

XRpredator said:
so do sport quads

You ask any kid - they all have a 'sporting' good time on a Yamaha YFM 80! :yeehaw:

BTW, Pred, what the heck is a TYTRZ125? Sounds like a two-stroke, twin cylinder Yamaha Trials/Sportbike hybrid? Is a Magnum 500 a Maico-like thingie? Just irrelevant curiosity.

SpDyKen · Jan 22, 2008

ignition retard said:
I thought everyone switched cuz the AMA changed the racing rules to allow 450 and 250 fours to race against 250 and 125 twos respectively, then people discovered the fours were faster. Is that not true?

DING! DING! DING!

WHINNAR! WHINNAR! WHINNAR! :yeehaw:

Ignition Retard, you may advance yourself to the front of this pack of retards. Your answer was technically only 1/2 correct, as the FIM's gang of bumbling idiots conspired with the 'MENSA-not' suits, with smiling faces and endless $$$ (ours,) that run the AMA.

I'll put my money on a 250 two-stroke against a 250 four-stroke, in any kind of race (or other competition, including trials or step-up,) you want to pick, every time.

I'm very happy to have all of the choices of bikes that are currently available today. I can confidently say that there are more choices of dirt bikes (and even quads, Pred & Rich,) than have ever been offered for sale in the history of motorcycles. I sincerely hope that our current "market correction," and future AMA/FIM "Einstein-like" (not) bumbles do not screw up this 'golden-era' of motorcycling!

And just think, if not for quads, how many extra "genuses" we would have here! :uh:

It will be fun to see this debated here!

PlowboysGhost · Jan 22, 2008

The following is a mixture of personal opinion, personal preference, and established/observed fact...nothing more:

It'll be interesting to see what happens this year with the new rule changes putting the 4-stroke displacement "advantage" to rest in amateur racing.

It's cool to have a choice between 2&4-strokes, but I don't like the idea of having rules in place that phase out anyone's choice. I personally will only ride a two-stroke because that's what I can afford to maintain, what I enjoy, and what I ride best.
That said, I don't buy in to the new thumpers being a "progressive evolution" in anything. What makes a 4-stroke fast is the same principally as what made them fast when you built them 25 years ago. Maxxed out they do not hold up well just as they didn't in 1985 in the Pro-200cc 4-stroke 3- wheeler class(see: Curtis Sparks). Sure now we have plated cylinders, 5-valve heads, and titanium this and that taking 4-stroke tech to new levels....but run flat out week after week they still require more frequent maintanance and now more costly repairs(than in 1985... inflation out of the equation) when the inevitable happens.

There is a reason that the two strokes went from being generally regarded as more temperamental and more expensive to maintain(even just 10 years ago) to now being seen as the more economical, reliable choice...and not solely because of bias on the part of anyone.

Last Sunday I could hear a couple of 4-strokes down the mountain at a local (Pro Quad racer's) track....3-4 miles away mind you....and no other bikes. When I went down there, there was a CRF450 and a quad there, but also a few 2-strokes as well. Not only could I not hear the smokers all the way at my house, but I couldn't even hear them on the opposite side of the track while the thumpers were near! I personally don't like that loud, flatulant sound one bit....and apparently a lot of property owners across the country don't either(see: more ride areas shutting down).

I support anyone's freedom to choose whatever type of engine they want under their arse.....just don't expect me to buy into the notion that my 250-dinger is antiquated, obsolete, or uncompetitive.

IndyMX · Jan 22, 2008

PlowboysGhost said:
I support anyone's freedom to choose whatever type of engine they want under their arse.....just don't expect me to buy into the notion that my 250-dinger is antiquated, obsolete, or uncompetitive.

Wanna race? :rotfl: :nener:

XRpredator · Jan 22, 2008

SpDyKen said:
You ask any kid - they all have a 'sporting' good time on a Yamaha YFM 80! :yeehaw:

BTW, Pred, what the heck is a TYTRZ125? Sounds like a two-stroke, twin cylinder Yamaha Trials/Sportbike hybrid? Is a Magnum 500 a Maico-like thingie? Just irrelevant curiosity.

dunno if I'd call that YFM a "sport" quad, nor the Polaris 500.

the TYTRZ125 is the hybrid TTR125/YZ80 I built for my boy (that he's already outgrown). I decided to make it an acronym I could pronounce -- TYTRZ.

or you could just say "Titters"

PlowboysGhost · Jan 22, 2008

IndyMX said:
Wanna race? :rotfl: :nener:

If you're talking drag race....sure. I've got a 20-year old dinger bike(not talking about the KX250 either) sitting here that I'll put against a 450F in a drag race. I don't think it's gonna help anybody's superiority complex :nener: to put their high dollar/high tech thumper up against this $200(my investment) dinosaur, though.

I myself need a whole lot of work before I am able to fend off even a pit bike on a MX track :rotfl: .

oldguy · Jan 22, 2008

My son's experience (mine is very limited on todays 4 strokes since in 5 or 6 rides I hve broken some body part 3 times) shows he loved the handling and ability to flick a 125 wherever he wanted it but to be competitive he had to go to a 250F. His cornering was much faster on the 125 but he had a major disadvantage when running down straights or on hilly tracks. Once he raced 4 strokes for 3 seasons he tried going to a 250 2 stroke but ended up not liking it and got a 450 instead. Again he was competitive but now an equal rider on a 250 2 stroke could harass him pretty bad on tighter tracks. This season he again weighed getting a 250 2 or 4 stroke since they will be racing same class but decided on the 4 stroke to keep his basic riding style the same in both classes since he will often jump between the 250F and 450 in almost back to back motos.
I know of 3 guys in the A class with him this year that want to switch to 250 2 strokes but want to stay on Hondas and they can not find any 2007 250 2 strokes in this area. They may be forced to go 4 stroke or switch to Yamaha. I really think they are making the proper choice competitively by going 250 2 stroke over the 250F. If the market yields up enough 2strokes I think at least this season in our Lites class they will be dominate.

Now my part in this equation I would have loved him to go 2 stroke just for the maintenance part of it all since I feel much more comfortable tearing into a 2 stroke then a 4 stroke (thank god Eric Gorr opened his shop 20 minutes from my house)

SpDyKen · Jan 22, 2008

oldguy said:
(thank god Eric Gorr opened his shop 20 minutes from my house)

It is a good thing that it is winter to remind me that I am not really as jealous as I once might have been. (I have only shoveled snow twice here, since I moved to Ga. Don't worry though, Ive already shoved plenty back in Ia. & Il. this winter, when visiting.)

If I was you, I think I'd be cutting a trail, over hill and dale, all the way to Eric's place! You can work on it by snowmobile this week, right? KW

oldguy · Jan 22, 2008

SpDyKen said:
It is a good thing that it is winter to remind me that I am not really as jealous as I once might have been. (I have only shoveled snow twice here, since I moved to Ga. Don't worry though, Ive already shoved plenty back in Ia. & Il. this winter, when visiting.)

If I was you, I think I'd be cutting a trail, over hill and dale, all the way to Eric's place! You can work on it by snowmobile this week, right? KW

Oh yeah I could easily do it by snowmobile in fact last night we got 9 more inches. I do love snow and no one can ever say they heard me complain about shoveling it (at least I should say blowing it with the snowblower :nod: ) It has been a long time since I actually remember snow before Christmas and staying this long without a major melt- I love it
Spider was over at EG's shop 2 weeks ago doing a topend/overall checkup on his 450 so that is good to go :ride: The 250F is new so I hope it doesn't visit Eric for a bit

dirtbike2244 · Jan 22, 2008

all this talk about a 4smokers and screamers. I think somebody needs to do some scientific testing... something like racing a 250f against a 250 screamer. Then post the results here if you don't already know what they'd be.

oldguy · Jan 22, 2008

dirtbike2244 said:
all this talk about a 4smokers and screamers. I think somebody needs to do some scientific testing... something like racing a 250f against a 250 screamer. Then post the results here if you don't already know what they'd be.

Equal skilled riders on perfectly jetted bikes, same track, same time, the 2stroke 250 would beat a 250F. :nod:

Matt Fisher · Jan 22, 2008

I had the chance to ride a hopped-up 07 KXF250 this last Sunday back to back with my 03 CR250R, and it really wasn't too bad. I've ridden other 250F's and been thoroughly underwhelmed. It had very linear (boring?) power, and I think the lack of low-end torque would be a real limitation for non-mx action, but I could see how a rider in less than optimum shape wouldn't get tired out as quickly as they would on a 250-2.

I still would not spend my hard earned money on one.

ebeck · Jan 22, 2008

Charmichael won in 05 on a 2 stroke didn't he?

The reason for thumprs... EPA and tree huggers. Plus dealers and manufacturers like all the new parts and service revenue.

Okiewan · Jan 22, 2008

And the point of this discussion is what?
Will the evil that brought the 4-stroke go away? Nope.
Will living in the past bring back the 2-Stroke? Nope.

Maybe the good fight should have started when the 2-stroke was out-lawed for street use rather than crying about it now?

The battle is over.

PlowboysGhost · Jan 22, 2008

Okiewan The battle is over.[/QUOTE said:
Thank goodness!

BTW.......who won?

2strokerfun · Jan 22, 2008

ebeck said:
Charmichael won in 05 on a 2 stroke didn't he?

The reason for thumprs... EPA and tree huggers. Plus dealers and manufacturers like all the new parts and service revenue.

From what I've read and seen, the tree hugger and EPA have nothing really to do with it. The other points you bring up very well might.
It is what it is.

SpDyKen · Jan 22, 2008

Okiewan said:
The battle is over.

There was a battle? Dang, I missed it! I love a good battle. :rotfl:

Why not 2-strokes anymore??

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