xr400 spring question for canyncarvr

et998 · May 1, 2002

from reading the threads i can assume you are totally happy with your front forks (or should i say happier?).the race tech website recommends .42kg springs for the front forks and leave the rear spring alone.you've tried several spring rates.do you know what part number xr400 spring?they list 2 for late model xr without a spring rate specified on the electronic parts catalog.fyi,bike is an 02 220r,my weight 185 ready to ride,southeast woods,mud and sand,intermediate level.comments and suggestions appreciated.

canyncarvr · May 2, 2002

Totally happier? That fits.

I tried a .42 set. Came from jeremy (mx-tech). Too stiff for me! I could feel every pebble, the front coming down was a jarring situation. They were 470mm springs. Eibach I think.

The honda springs changed that. The little pebbles would come and go and I didn't feel a thing. Landing after being airborne, the front end just swallows it up. They are 530mm (+/-).

I am not familiar with the online catalog you're looking at. I'd think if they list two different springs, they'd note which was the stocker, the set that the XR COMES with. BuyKawasaki.com, does anyway.

No, I do not have a part number. The springs came in honda wrapping from jeremy, but I didn't note the part number. The springs I have (.40) are IN late model XR400s.......they aren't an 'option' for that bike.

My preload (thus the spacer) is as small as I could make it and still use the two locating washers (the spacer has a minimum length requirement because the washers fit INside the spacer). Came out to around 8mm.

My shock spring is 5.0 (stock). My riding buddy's kdx had a 4.8 put in by his tuner (he's 10-15# lighter than I am). It's REAL comfy, but not quite enough reserve for hard landings...well when I ride it (sez me). If your rear wheel spends 99% of it's time on the ground, you may well like a 4.8.

If the 'it's what comes in the XR' doesn't help at all, send me an email...I'll get the bona-fide PN for you.

et998 · May 2, 2002

i was at a local honda dealer where a riding bud is the service manager,he let me breeze thru a xr 400 service manual and the parts guy didn't have a clue either.no mention of spring rates.(i did not look at an owner' manual).it appeared there was only 2 springs available.(genuine honda parts catalog,and they don't even specify stock vs.whatever ))race tech says the measured rate of my springs are .35kg/mm and their recommended front spring is a .416(nee,.42)and rear is a measured 5.0 with a recommendation of a 4.96.i am pretty sure the stock rear will suffice for now.i would not mind a little (reserve)on the front.i will problably install a gold valve kit at this time also.i don't know what the setups are on that(race tech will only allow a one time viewing of setups,problably only if i buy directly from them).i was planning on doing this myself because i can get a better deal on parts,(thru a bud who can buy direct from parts unlimited)your riding sounds similar to mine,and thats why i'm listening.how many people have really took their time on these kdx forks(with the gold valve setups,etc.)?it sounds like jeremy has on yours,i do not know anyone who has had fredette do theirs with feedback like i have seen from you.i really think i may just slam in the springs and consider the revalve later.thanks for the advice.

andrew · May 6, 2002

Eibach springs

I replaced my stock springs with Eibach .42's to suit XR400. Part number on the eibach website. Length is 512mm - a little shorter than canyncarvr's genuine honda units, but quite a bit longer than the stock KDX spring.

I set the preload at 10mm with mobile 1 ATF. I came to realise they were probably slightly stiff for my weight (80kg) and that i probably could have got the .40's. To counter this I set the compression dampner to about 5 clicks off the softest setting - in other words with minimal preload, light oil and light compression dampning I'm letting the spring do most of the work.

I must say that I am extremely pleased with the results. I don't think it would be too much different if I had got the OEM honda units.

Cheers,

Jim Crenca · May 6, 2002

I asked Jeremy about using Honda springs when he did my fork lasy month. He said that the Honda spring is of better construction (hot wound verse cold wound as I remeber), but said the lead time was probably not worh the wait as a only a super rider would notice the difference on a real life ride.

canyncarvr · May 6, 2002

Hey... I'm a SUPERrider!!! ;)

(I'm saying I rode two different bikes (kdxs) one with, one without and the difference was large...imo of course!)

Jim Crenca · May 7, 2002

CC,

Are we talking apples to apples (same rate springs, same fork valving, etc.)?

canyncarvr · May 7, 2002

Jim: The initial impression was on two bikes valved differently (mine mx-tech, the other house of horsepower). I had .42 and .40 aftermarket springs, the other had the XR .40s. After I changed to the XRs, the two bikes were similar to the point of not being able to tell the difference, forkwise.

That kinda puts it along the lines of: If A = B and B = C, then it's safe to assume that A = C, even though they were not directly compared.

Notwithstanding different valving, the bikes ended up the same when fitted with the same spring.

Jim Crenca · May 7, 2002

I'm bummed now.
While I think the work done by MX Tech is good, their growth & ability to manage is out of control. My forks took 5 weeks for a re-valve and spring change (not including shipping time) with un-answered E-mails & phone calls regarding this spring option. I was quoted 2 week turn around. I sent a letter with the forks requesting this spring, but they were incredibly busy and didn't open the box for a while. In addition, I did get bad information as to when they really would ship! I still like MX Tech and might use them in the future after convincing Jeremy that BS answers to customers does not make for repeat clients or good business. I still would have sent him the work if he told me 5 weeks up front & now question their management AND technical abilities.

Then again, maybe he doesn't really agree about the Honda spring quality.

PS- I asked for the Race Tech springs back that were in the forks (previous owner / wrong rate) to give to a friend. That was 2 weeks ago. :|

canyncarvr · May 7, 2002

Then again, maybe he doesn't really agree about the Honda spring quality.

Sorry in advance, but the one brain cell I have left doesn't follow you. I don't know who jeremy is agreeing with (or not) or if you think he's changing his mind about something.

It's a bummer for sure to have parts gone for a long time...couple that with left-hand, right-hand ignorance stuff and you're working up to a real decent headache.

That's a primary reason I didn't send my plating-peeling cylinder to mr. gorr...cuz he said (upfront) he was behind and 'out' a long time.

Jeremy mentioned to me the hot-wound/cold-wound deal on oem/aftermarket springs. That issue wasn't involved in my decision.

Heck! I'm not looking to argue with anyone about them, or convince anyone to use them if they don't wanna!! The whole point is, I came across them by accident..hadn't heard of anyone else using them. They work SO good..are SUCH a big difference when compared to aftermarket springs......I'm just trying to share the joy!!!! ;)

What you need is a good ride!! My wife would say, 'You're starting to get CRANKY!!!!!' ....that happens about, oh.....wednesday of any given week........;)

Dazza · May 7, 2002

I agree with canyncarvr.I found the OEM XR400 springs totally change the bike.
I reckon it would nearly have to be a must mod.(XR springs)
Put em in set the preload to 8mm of you go.
I have run them a long time and found that the preload has remained at 8mm.

Jim Crenca · May 8, 2002

Just to clarify, Jeremy didn't think one would notice a handling difference between the two springs (all things being equal). I do hate bad information (i.e. being lied to) in regards to shipping dates. It's good that Eric told you the truth up front.

Braahp · May 9, 2002

Just to show you that it all boils down to personal preference and your riding conditions. I have been experimenting with Fredettes 2 springs and the xr400 springs. I would change between them all leaving the Fredette GoldValve stack the same and oil level at 100mm. Spring and preload I would try different and so far I am liking the 22lb(.39kg) spring from Fredette with stock spacer versus the xr400 springs with 10mm spacer. It just flat out works better on my KDX. Seems to ride much higher in stroke.......as it should with the stock preload spacer. That alone makes a big difference to me. The xr springs seemed to bottom more easily when I went to MX tracks. Both soak up the little nasty hits well but the XR springs seem to be a harsher ride. Who knows...I may go back to the XR springs but right now the 22lb Fredette springs are the hot ticket to me. I weigh 225 and I can't see how anyone could use spring rates much over .40. Stiffer would absolutely beat me to death in the kind of tight woods and harescrambles I do.

canyncarvr · May 9, 2002

That's really the whole point, isn't it? To either have done enough research to enable a decent decision based on 'facts', or be able to test the stuff yourself and make a decision.

And if 'you' (whoever 'you' is) really like 'yours' ...that's the way it oughtta be!

I think my riding buddy's new exc stinks! I don't care that it's faster. I don't care that it's 'cool', or that everybody else (seems) has one.

Braahp is right on the money!!

...it all boils down to personal preference and your riding conditions.

fatty_k · Jul 17, 2002

I just want to bring back this thread for a couple questions. I am thinking of getting the XR 4 springs and I am reading your posts and you guys cut that 90mm preload spacer down to 8-10mm with the XR 4 springs?? Braahp's post intruiged me to go with the Fredette .39's and use the stock spacer. I like the idea of the fork riding higher in the stroke, becuase right now with my stock springs, I ride in the lower 1/4 of the stroke! :eek:
How much do stock XR 4 springs cost BTW? Fredette .39's are around $60 while Race Tech's are around $90! I am in a prediciment over price and perfomance. Thanks.

andrew · Jul 17, 2002

I don't know about stock springs for XR400, but I bought Eibach after-market springs to suit the XR400 for about $150 Aus (approx $70 US).

regards,

Fred T · Jul 17, 2002

I weigh 225 and I can't see how anyone could use spring rates much over .40. Stiffer would absolutely beat me to death in the kind of tight woods and harescrambles I do. [/B]

Call me crazy but I like the .42's the best. I had Fredette 21# first, then Wilkeys .40's and now the firmer .42's. I have no problem with small bumps, rocks. logs or roots and in MI the sand whoops can become brutally large so keeping the front wheel up is a good thing. I weigh about 195.

Fatty, you use PVC pipe to cut and fit a preload spacer to any size you want. Fredette sends you some with the springs.
FT

canyncarvr · Jul 22, 2002

Fatty:
This'll be a big help...;)
Jeremy provided the XR springs for the same cost as the springs he originally put in my forks when he had them for a revalve/service. I don't recall what that $$ actually was, though.

Yep! That's definitely a big help to 'ya!

He may well have done that (same price) as a 'favor', though...as the first set of springs (.42s) was too stiff to suit, the second set (.40s) failed (one collapsed). It may have come under the heading of, 'Anything to get rid of this PROBLEM!'

You RIDE in the lower 1/4 of the fork stroke? Whoa! That's a bad thing!

Maybe I don't understand. While riding your bike, the fork operates in the 8"down area???

A lighter spring, with more preload to make the fork ride high means you have LESS spring to act as a suspender. You can't take away from one end and not have it effect the other.

fatty_k · Jul 22, 2002

I went ahead and ordered a set of FRP .39's, so hopfully that will help. Thanks for your input.

xr400 spring question for canyncarvr

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