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Message: [QUOTE="mtngoat, post: 142854, member: 18818"] Dualsportr, thanks for that info. I'll be sure to investigate seals when I redo my heads. But, with the friendliest intentions, I have to stick my neck out too. While I agree, in part, with your "derivative vs. design argument", I think it understates the practical knowledge gained from application. For instance, product reviews are underway here at the forum. One could argue that the reviewers don't know the limitations/capabilities of the reviewed products because they didn't design them. Practically, I think it's the application (i.e. end use) of a design that's most conclusive. Back on point, I've found the XRs Only folks and others (e.g. Baja Designs) who use "derivative" technology to be the most informed about what works and don't. They also provide a valuable "feedback" loop to the designers, who aren't the ones most often fixing what didn't cut it in design. [/QUOTE]