$ 4 $ best suspension mods?

[dmcc]

OK, I know the kdx is terribly "unbalanced", and I also get the drift that you can only take it so far in improvements. What I really want to know is, dollar for dollar, what mods will I get the most out of? Should I spend a little money with springs and adjustments and move to a different bike in the future, or is it worth it to spend $600 on the suspension? If it will make an INCREDIBLE difference I am interested, but I would like to know if I am just going to fall victim to "deminishing returns".
Just a note, I have the engine where I want it for now, just want to look before I leap on suspension mods.
Thanks!

 

[Midhigh]

I would ask you a question right back. What do ride? MX or Trails. If you ride MX, Stop! Use your KDX to learn then sell it for a KX 250 or something. If you ride trails, IMO (and as I have done) put the money into the KDX. Not a better bike to ride trails, and can be a very fast bike in the woods to boot.

 

[dmcc]

98% woods! But to keep up with my kids, I reaaly have to "carry the mail", and would like as good of performance as I can reasonably get for fast trails, hard braking, a little air once in a while, etc. I'm not an outstanding rider, but if we are riding, we're riding hard!

 

[Midhigh]

dmcc,

I saw in your profile you have a 02 KDX 200. That is plenty of bike to go hard and fast in the woods. Your riding sounds alot like mine. Woods, trails (some of which bleed into the MX track) & Alittle air. It is the only way to ride. Fast and hard! The KDX will handle it all.
I have on my bike the following Mods.: Works Connection Skid Plate & Rad. guards; Delta V-force reed cage and reeds (recomend); taper bars; FMF fatty pipe and silencer; larger rear sprocket (47 tooth - 50 tooth); graphics and seat cover; and soon to be WER steering stablizer and Works Connection frame guards. Got over $1000 in just mods. The family and I ride with a nother family. And my KDx will run away from the teenager on the CR 125 and go toe to toe with the dad's YZ 426.

My next mods will be the suspension springs!
The KDX is an awesome and very reliable bike.

I have an extra rad valve if anyone is interested!

 

[kx_693]

Tell you my opinion, I race the GNCC's and the national hairscrambles....I race the 200B class and ride a KDX 200...I had FCR suspension revalve the suspension and re spring it. I also have a KX 250 that i race all the local hs on. But with the Modified KDX suspension Id rather race it any day.....FCR charges $125 an end for the revalve, and springs cost me $80 from Kawasaki. So even without getting a deal from him, unless u need all new bushings and seals its going to be under $350.

 

[RTL]

IMHO, I would address the suspension shortcomings with Race Tech GV's and springs, both front and rear. Do the work yourself and save some serious coin. Call Fredette and use his stack recommendations as a starting point.

Next, wake up the KDX with the usual pipe and carb mods.

Now, add a steering stablizer (if needed) and STOP! You should be around $1000 in hop up costs, do not go any higher!

If you need anymore performance after these mods, you are flat out ripping and should consider moving up to more suitable machine, as you will find yourself in the world of seriously dimenishing returns.

While the KDX is still the best buy in dirtbikes and I love mine dearly, I would be very cautious of putting anymore money into one. I made that mistake, it's easy to do, as I have over 2 grand on my KDX without any porting or a steering stabalizer. PLUS, you can get a KX250 for under 5 grand now a days..... Be smart, as you seem to be by asking the correct questions.

Keep the costs down with the KDX and you are justified. Going to the 'next level' with the KDX is easily done, but it will cost you more than if you went orange or woodsified a KX250.

Just my 02. Let'em rip... ;)

 

[Braahp]

$600? Yikes! You can install Gold Valves and new springs yourself for a little over $200. Makes a huge difference. IMO folks put too much emphasis on the type bike. Its 95% rider that makes for all that good fast riding and not the kind of bike one has. Sure it helps to have the latest and greatest but a good rider on a well setup KDX can rip rip rip!

 

[dmcc]

Where do you get specs for installing and any setup on the Gold Valves?

 

[James]

Originally posted by Braahp
$600? Yikes! You can install Gold Valves and new springs yourself for a little over $200. Makes a huge difference. IMO folks put too much emphasis on the type bike. Its 95% rider that makes for all that good fast riding and not the kind of bike one has. Sure it helps to have the latest and greatest but a good rider on a well setup KDX can rip rip rip!

I haven't seen Gold Valve kits for less than 125 each end and springs usually run about $100 per end so that is a bit over $450 with my math. The gold valve kits come with all of the charts and you use their web page to get the starting point. I have them in one of my bikes but wouldn't spend the money on another kit.

I would also disagree on the 95% rider thing. I know it is said over and over like some bad cliche but coming off of an xr400, I can honestly say that riding a bike with sufficient suspension, a stiffer frame, some power, and footpegs that don't bend made a world of difference for my woods riding.

I might be singing a different tune if I had started with the KDX as opposed to the XR :thumb:

$4$, get the right springs for your weight, use the oil level in the forks, and play with the clickers to get it as close as possible. Wouldn't hurt to learn how to add/take out shims if you wanna do it yourself. I think there is a whole lot of VOODOO talk when it comes to suspension tuning but I have found for myself that I can make significant improvements in my ride by adding a few low speed compression shims.

 

[dmcc]

Well, I haven't decided yet, but from what I've read, I'm leaning towards starting with the XR400 .38 springs and seeing if I can adjust it for me. (I weigh from 170 to 175). Where do I find good starting points for oil level, shim stacks, etc. with this mod?

 

[Robcolo]

Almost anything you do to the suspension will make an incredible difference. It is designed to be a 1st, 2nd, and occasional 3rd gear ride --and it does this exceptionally well. If you ever want to go faster -you have problems. IMO, the only way to make it somewhat safe & stable at higher speeds is with a steering damper. Trying to stabilize it by lowering the rear or raising the front or stiffening it way up destroys it's great low speed -quick turning abilities. If you try to go fast you'll find that the High Speed Compression is excessive and the bike beats your arms to a pulp. Gold Valves cured mine of this problem. It MAY [?] be possible to revalve the stock valve but would require drilling out the very tiny holes in the valve plate to allow a greater oil flow. [I'm going to try this with a friends KDX]. Installing stiffer springs casues the already too soft rebound valves to be overworked. I took some of the discarded shims from my compression valve and added them to the rebound stack. MX Tech - I think- offers a tuneable rebound valve. Too rapid rebound contributes to front end washout and every KDX I've ridden has this problem--puts you down fast!! Unfortunately, there's another downside to stiffer springs. In really gnarly terrain, the front end tends to bounce around and off of roots & rocks instead of absorbing them - making a lot more work for the rider. Instead of stiffer springs, I've built an adjustable air spring for mine. There's a gauge there and I can add or bleed off several psi air depending on the terrain. [So how fast can you guys change out your steel springs on the trail ?] This works so good Im going to make up some kits and market them..............Next Chapter - the rear end.

 

[woods_rider1]

I have to agree with James on this one, start out on a bike that can deliver performance on par with your riding level. I had a KDX for 8 years and had every mod available for it short of raising the cc's. While the upgraded suspension and motor was much welcomed over stock it never felt like it was adequate (to me). It always felt like I was going fast on a trailbike (like trying to race your little sisters XR 200), I would swap with riding buddies and instantly their KX's and RM's felt worlds better to me. (adequate power and suspension) I finally got a KTM and immediately noticed the difference, wow, this stock bike is WAY better than my old fully modded trail bike. No Kidding, the difference is night and day. While I wont slam the KDX, it took me many, many miles and never left me stranded, and performed admirably for what I expected out of it, I am much happier on something faster and better suspended. (It is amazing what a difference 50cc's and serious suspension does for a bike)

 

[70 marlin]

RTL hit the nail on the head! Ship them off to Jeremy "front & back" have the correct sping's and valving installed. nothing really like have your bump sticks set up by a pro!  Maybe tail seat foam and then go like hell.

 

[Dan Reed]

First off, I love my 96 KDX too honey, but with the economy not so hot, I can't believe the low prices of some new, leftover bikes...01 RM250 for $ 3,699! add FWW and handguards....I would seriously consider looking at something like that if you have the CASH (and inseam) to accommodate. I like the ability to lower my KDX (conventional forks, thick seat can be carved) but $4$ consider a leftover.

 

[Bill Hibbs]

Honestly, just spending the $50.00 for the springs will be the BEST money you ever spent. The valves and stuff is just Gravy. It's great, but yes, it gets very expensive. The $50.00 for the springs will really make a dramatic improvement!

 

[dmcc]

Now THATS what I wanted to know! We tend to get off track on these threads(and learn alot that way), but to reword my original question, DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR, where do you get the most bang for your buck (suspension wise). And again, in other words, will I get as much more improvement out of the signifigantly higher expense of valving and such as I will get out of the smaller investment of the springs?!? Thanks Bill for going back to the original Q, anybody else have any input?
(Thanks to the rest of you guys too, I'm learning and picking up a lot!)
Signed, "Trying to decide how much denero to try to justify in a practically nonexistant budget"

 

[James]

Originally posted by James
$4$, get the right springs for your weight, use the oil level in the forks, and play with the clickers to get it as close as possible. Wouldn't hurt to learn how to add/take out shims if you wanna do it yourself. I think there is a whole lot of VOODOO talk when it comes to suspension tuning but I have found for myself that I can make significant improvements in my ride by adding a few low speed compression shims.

I don't think anybody got off topic. T o reword my answer:

The cheapest way to get the most out of your suspension:

1. Get the right springs for your weight/riding style (I don't think we know your weight)

2. Use the oil level and clickers to fine tune with the new springs. You can pretty much only do this by riding it and making the necessary adjustments. A good starting point is the stock settings.

3. If you can't get what you need out of the spring change, clickers, and oil level, then you need to look to re-valving. This usually isn't cheap unless you do it yourself.

Nobody can tell you for sure that a certain setup is going to be perfect for you. .38 XR springs would be too stiff for a 145lb guy and way too soft for a fat guy like me. Many people hate stock MX suspension in the woods.......I like mine the same for jumping triples and woods riding except for a click or two.

I don't think you mentioned a specific complaint or issue that was slowing you down. Are the forks bottoming? Is the back end swapping on you? Is your front wheel deflecting off of roots/rocks? Maybe you don't need to spend any money and work on your technique?

"Should I spend a little money with springs and adjustments and move to a different bike in the future, or is it worth it to spend $600 on the suspension"

My reworded short answer on this other part of your original question is....I'd get a different bike.

 

[jaguar]

the faster you go, the more important become the little stuff (characteristics of the bike, especially suspension)
But for trail riding I'd settle for stronger springs and 5/10wt oil.

robcolo, I'd like to know how to change the compression/rebound characteristics myself. care to email me at a57ngel@yahoo.com ? thanks

 

[70 marlin]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who been doing a lot of picking-up lately :scream:  I have two Fredette kxd's a 99 & 96. The 99 has the full blown race tech set up with gold valving up front, and a heavier rear spring set up for a 230 pound'er. The 96 has only heavier front spring's & stock rear. The 99 will out ride the 96 any day of the week! The difference between the two bikes is night & day! $4$ the race tech inspection & gold valving on the front and rear spring made the 99 a superior bike. "LIKE I SAID THERE'S NO REPLACEMENT FOR LETING A PRO DO IT FOR YOU. AT LEAST ONCE TO SET IT UP FOR YOU!" Also I'm not sure how tall you are? I'm 6'0" and the kdx is a bit tight for me. CR high bend handle bar's & tall seat foam made my bike feel a bit more comfortable, money well spent!

 

[dmcc]

JAMES--- sorry, I did kind of overlook your answer. I'm sure my question could have been better worded to draw out the answers I am looking for. I didn't mean any offense with the "off the track" statement, everbody here has different experiences with different products, and I doubt if anybody has had the time or money to try every option, so every reply is worthwhile.
I'm really not looking for someone to tell me the specific products at this time, as I'm still shopping and we do all have different preferences as far as stiffness and such. So taking all answers into account, I'm gonna make another lame attempt at asking what would like to find out.
REVISED QUESTION: At what point on a KDX suspension do we really get into deminishing returns?
James, I know you addressed this, as did some others. If it's not asking to much, I'd just like as much of a cross section of answers as possible.
Also if it does help, I weigh about 175, do a lot hard woods riding, rairly get more than 3' off the ground, and quite often hit an open trail and get into 5th or 6th between woods trails. I like a plush suspension, but I don't want to bottom out or bounce off track when I land, and I do have a problem with loose sand putting me on the ground without warning. I also do not want to give up much of the ease of steering in tight woods, so I realize improving my sand handling may be asking too much.
Again, I meant no offense, and appreciate all answers.
Darren

 

[Bill Hibbs]

Ahhh Deminishing returns..haha.. That's a great question. I guess it depends on if you're planning on keeping the bike for a long time and if it's even a bike Worth putting money into. If you were looking at two identical KDX's for sale and one had 800.00 worth of Suspension mods is the guy going to pay that much more for it? Maybe a couple hundred bucks more?? I'd say if you're keeping the bike though and actually feel the benefits of great suspension for the years you have the bike, yea, it's worth it. Personally, I had a stock 97 KDX (there are pics on my website) with clean oil set up at the proper ride height and the proper springs and I thought the suspension felt great for the trails here in the Midwest. The cool valving will give you even more plushness but will handle the Big hits even better, yes, the best of both worlds. I'd do the springs, and experiment with the clickers and oil level and see how good you can get it. I think you'll be surprised. And if that's not good enough go for the valving, just don't expect to get all of your money back out of it. It is a new bike though, and you'll most likely have it for a while, It could be worth the extra $$. The bike is definitely capable and worthy of the mods so don't worry about that. ;)

 

[dmcc]

It is a new bike, the fact is although I've owned several dirt bikes over the years this is the only brand new bike I've ever owned, and I do plan on keeping it for many years. So resale isn't really a concern. My daughter may take it from me, but she's leaning back to 4 strokes. So I need to set it up for me, period. So while I'm willing to spend a good chunk to make it better, I don't want to get to the point of "throwing" money at it.
When you say Big Hits, are you talking about jumping? Or fast ledges, rocks, logs and such, or both?

 

[CaptainObvious]

Get some springs for $80, have a good shop rework the valves (you don't need Gold Valves) for about $100 and have 'em seviced with oil and fresh seals. You'll have a bike that handles 100% better for about $200 invested. Spend any more money and you'll have a hard time finding the difference. You'd be amazed how much oil weight and height have an effect on your suspension.

Find a good local shop and work with them. They'll help you get all of the factors correct.

 

[dmcc]

Thanks!
Do the gold valves just flow more, or do they vary with the hit or load?

 

[James]

Originally posted by dmcc
JAMES--- sorry, I did kind of overlook your answer. I didn't mean any offense with the "off the track" statement,

NO offense taken! People overlook me all of the time :thumb: I just wanted to clarify that we we all taking a stab at various parts of your question and clarify my answer.

RaceTech.com has a spring calculator that can help you figure out which springs you need. I would take a stab at your Gold Valve question but I have only used the kits on one bike and they seemed to be very similar to the stock pistons. The benefit to the kits is that it gives do-it-yourselfers the info and parts to get it done at home.

I know how you feel cause I was there a year and a half ago. And I never seem to stop tinkering with stuff.

Good Luck!