Ack!!!!!!

[cr125 2006]

You dont know what it like to pay for expensive gas in Ireland where i live for a gallon its $7.00

 

[bsmith]

You dont know what it like to pay for expensive gas in Ireland where i live for a gallon its $7.00

Well Diesel hit $5.29 here at one station, so getting fairly close.
Difference between Europe and US, is you have numerous cars that get 30-70 mpg. Diesel BMW, Mercedes, and VW's, yet here our EPA regulations prevent the sale of those cars. So we are stuck with autos getting 20-30's mpg with a few exceptions over 30. Not to mention our love of full size 4x4 averaging 16-20 mpg.

I just don't get it, I can average 19.5 mpg with a 2005 Dodge Diesel 1 ton, yet they don't sell a little small pickup with 3 or 4 cylinder diesel that can beat it. It's amazing that in the past 30 years the auto industry has not been able to produce newer models with better mileage. My 77 Chevy 350 got 17mpg, and my 97 Chevy 350 got 17mpg :|
I've looked at Toyota 4x4 with 22re, but 22mpg just not worth the extra costs.

 

[2strokerfun]

I just don't get it, I can average 19.5 mpg with a 2005 Dodge Diesel 1 ton, yet they don't sell a little small pickup with 3 or 4 cylinder diesel that can beat it. It's amazing that in the past 30 years the auto industry has not been able to produce newer models with better mileage. My 77 Chevy 350 got 17mpg, and my 97 Chevy 350 got 17mpg.

I agree. I had a 1976 Chevy Laguna with a 400 small block and quadrajet that I could get 20-22 mpg on the highway if I really babied it. I recently sold my 2003 full size GMC pickup that got 16 mpg because of gas mileage. So I bought a smaller Nissan Frontier pickup. I get the same gas mileage as the bigger engine/truck did.

 

[ignition retard]

isuzu hombre (?96-99?) chevy s10 or gmc sonoma 4cyl 5spd will do pretty good (high 20s mpg), there all the same truck with diffrent names. For some reason nissan always wants to put low gearing in there trucks which kills the mileage. Check out www.fueleconomy.gov for info on mpg before buying a truck. In the late 80s chevy actually put a 4cyl diesel in the s10, it got astounding mileage but due to lack of consumer interest was discontinued. Its not the EPA regulating that causes our vehicles to be gas hogs its just what we seem to want here.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Says a lot about us when you look whats on the road. Big suvs, big cars, and dually pick up trucks. A friend has a modded out diesel 4x4, it gets 1 mile per gallon. He also has a big block boat, with a blower, it gets bout 1 mile per gallon. Oh, yes he owns a gas station. Screw around till its to late, and all the should haves and could haves, will be all we have.

 

[ignition retard]

amen to that!

 

[_JOE_]

My 77 Chevy 350 got 17mpg, and my 97 Chevy 350 got 17mpg

Probly cuase it was the same engine. The problem is that if the manufacturers made the trucks more fuel efficient the power would drop and everyone would bitch about that. I have a Ford Ranger with a 2.5L and manual tranny that gets low 20s in town. It doesn't do so well on the highway though because it lacks the power to pull the truck along at 70mph. Load a couple bikes in it and some gear, a cooler, gas cans, and 400 lbs of people and she cries like a school girl on the playground. I don't even have a clue as to how bad the economy drops of under load, but I know it would be better if the truck had the bigger 4.0L. But as soon as you unload it that would reverse.

 

[Patman]

Generally people in group think mode wait until the others make a move because it seems safer, until significantly more people switch I think we'll continue to see the big vehicles be the norm because it's "safe". Heck I'm guilty of not needing to drive the vehicle I do on a daily basis but when I need it I really need it and having another new vehicle isn't really in the cards. I am kicking around the idea of a toy car, one that get maybe double the MPG of my truck, is reasonably affordable and has a fun factor to it. Looked at an Alfa Romeo Spider just today! Have been wanting another 3000GT so who knows.

I'd kick around the idea of a Smart carif they got better mileage but as it stands it's not a significant improvement over anything we have to justify the cost. Maybe when VW get's their new TDi powered Jetta (and hopefully Passat) on line and dealers don't bend people over I'll be able to get my wife in to one of them. Amazing mileage and very nice vehicles. When we start seeing more vehicles on our shores that are less city car and more usable family car it just might really get rolling. The significant difference between USA & Europe is we live away from the city and commute in to it. Although that too is changing, in Austin tower condos have waiting lists several hundred deep!!!

 

[_JOE_]

Yeah, I don't understand why the deisels never really took off here. The do get significantly better economy. Though it seems VW is the only one really offering them here and I have been highly unimpressed by the quality as they age a bit. Not to mention they can be a real PITA to work on. My bro-in-law recently got a Jeep Liberty with the Mercedes deisel, it gets pretty good mileage and it doesn't change much when you hook the trailer to it.

The point about people living away from town makes me chuckle. I bought a little starter home in town a mile from my workplace. When I bought my house three years ago everyone was buying houses in the newer developments outside of town. Now you drive around the outskirts of town and tons of these newer places are for sale while houses in my neighborhood are selling pretty quickly for decent money. Seems like people are rethinking the whole moving further out thing.

 

[Patman]

I know several people with the newer VW TDi powered vehicles and they all are very happy, one is a heavy diesel mechanic who is seeing somewhere around 54MPG from his. I really think alot of re-education will need to happen with the misconception that diesels are something that can be neglected which is totally the opposite of the facts. Much like the switch from 2 strokes to 4 strokes the migration to diesels will be filled with those that got away with abusing their gas engine vehicles and figure they can do even less with a diesel. They are like fine watches, they must get some maintenance and it can often be spendy but if you treat them right and keep them a long time they will more than exceed the expectations.

I have no doubt people are re-thinking the idea of living closer to the workplace. Maybe I'm way ahead of the curve because that's my job and as odd as it may seem I am more than willing to pay the price to live out and commute in, pretty much no matter the cost. As I mentioned the vertical condos are crazy hot right now as are in-fill projects and redevelopemnt of urban areas, all very smart ideas in the long run. Business is also relocating to these urban cores because it is getting less expensive to go up rather and sprawl out.

Look at several of the more progressive urban areas around the country and you will see the VMU (vertical mixed use) projects being embraced along with various modes of transport from bicycles to electric vehicles and public transport options. Heck in the past 4 years I've done several projects within 200 yards of each other that pretty much cover the needs of most people, office, grocery, clothing, medical, etc... not to mention the existing and proposed adjacent projects! No car really needed for these folks.

 

[pidro_el_pirata]

Patman everything you said is pretty much awesome, thumbs up. I personally think the best thing for our environment so far has been the internet and the communication revolution it's responsible for. Someday soon, all the office building-type jobs will be handled/managed online with super servers handling webcam meetings and massive email systems capable of handling a full day's work every day. I can't wait until people won't need to waste gas getting to the office, doing business at home instead.

 

[btm1948]

ya its 3.95 here and with a 1948 dodge with a 360 and a huge carb its super killer in gas

 

[Okiewan]

Patman everything you said is pretty much awesome, thumbs up. I personally think the best thing for our environment so far has been the internet and the communication revolution it's responsible for. Someday soon, all the office building-type jobs will be handled/managed online with super servers handling webcam meetings and massive email systems capable of handling a full day's work every day. I can't wait until people won't need to waste gas getting to the office, doing business at home instead.

Not to mention the reduction in air travel for meetings, etc.

 

[rickyd]

Not to mention the reduction in air travel for meetings, etc.

McCain has brought up a possibility of he and Obama using the same jets to campaign :cool:

 

[pidro_el_pirata]

Not to mention the reduction in air travel for meetings, etc.

Eeeeexactly. :cool:


And rickyd.. lets not dirty this thread with politics. We're talking science here. :|

 

[rickyd]

Eeeeexactly. :cool:


And rickyd.. lets not dirty this thread with politics. We're talking science here. :|

We talking about gas prices if you really look at it. I just brought up the fact that McCain wants to travel w/Obama in one jet to campaign :laugh:

 

[Jaybird]

Disobey to what ends? What, are we gonna force more gas out the spigot?
Maybe burn a few of these robber baron gas stations to the ground, until the big-money oil guys decide to provide us fuel at $.89 a gal again?

Now would this disobedience extend to other lands, or is this just an in-house thing, meant to show only the dirty bassturds here at home we mean business? If we can civilly disobey on Arab soil, then what...do we force more oil out of the OPEC spigot?
Regulate the arab's pricing?

All the while deflating our dollar even more, as the whole thing hinges on the speculation of traders to begin with, and what our dollar can buy from those resulting speculations. Yeah, civil disobedience from the bulk of American society is sure to put some ease in the comfort level of the futures guys around the globe.

What really needs to be done is the creation of a gubment mandated program.
Gas Prices 101. In this class everyone will learn the gasoline and fuel process' from before the oil is tapped, to overflowing your SUV tank. Every facet of gasoline and it's process' , including the governmental interventions along the pipeline.

A bunch of whackos disobeying our civility is worthless without some worthwhile goal for effect.
No, I think knowledge is where true power lays. And if we all know all of the facts, then I think we will more clearly see what really needs to be done.
The ignorance of conventional wisdom abounds.

 

[Ol'89r]

Disobey to what ends? What, are we gonna force more gas out the spigot?
A bunch of whackos disobeying our civility is worthless without some worthwhile goal for effect.
No, I think knowledge is where true power lays. And if we all know all of the facts, then I think we will more clearly see what really needs to be done.
The ignorance of conventional wisdom abounds.

Jay.

Tell that to the folks that threw all of that tea into the Boston harbor. Civil disobedience does not automatically mean violence. To me it means simply not lining up with the rest of the sheep. Something as simple as boycotting foreign oil and only buying your gas from stations that only pump domestic oil. Applying pressure to your political representatives, (not that that does any good.) :|

Common sense tells us if we blew up refinerys it would only give them a reason to raise prices even higher. Plus the fact with the new Homeland Security laws we would be branded as terrorists.

Telling the enviro wackos to take a hike would be a good place to start. We have a lot of oil in California we just can't drill for it because of them. Same thing in Alaska and other parts of our country. Instead, we appease these people by switching our entire energy base to something like ethnol. That was doomed to failure from the very beginning. Everyone that was knowledgeable said it would raise food prices. It was hard to transport because it could not be pumped through pipelines and had to be trucked everywhere using up diesel fuel to get it there. Now, the whole world is screaming about food prices and the goberment in their imminent wisdom is saying maybe this was a mistake. Gee, ya think???

The governor of the state of Montana is preparing to drill for oil in his state and he says he doesn't care what the enviromentalists say. :fft: Good for him. It's about freakin time. We need more leaders like him. :cool:

Owning your own home-based business is a great way to help yourself and your family. Pumping $4.00+ a gallon gas into your car doesn't hurt nearly as bad when you know you can write it off on your taxes. Same with part of your electricity bill and phone bill. This countrys tax structure is set up to give businesses an advantage over the regular wage earners.
All you have to do is show a small profit at the end of the year to have it considered as a business, but the over all savings are enormous.

Knowledge is good but if you don't do anything with that knowledge what good does it do? Most of us know what the problem is. We are getting screwed. The price of oil is run by the futures market. The storage tanks in the eastern countries are full but the price is still going up. On the nightly news they tell us to get prepared for $5.00 a gallon gas. Kinda like the boiling frog syndrome. You put a frog in a pot of water and turn on the heat. The water gets warm but the frog doesn't mind or notice the water getting a little warmer. You turn up the heat a little bit at a time until the frog is being boiled. We are those frogs and we are getting cooked a little bit at a time.

Don't you think it's strange that when a refinery catches on fire in BFE, our price of gas goes up within a day or two? When summer vacation time rolls around, the price of gas goes up. When they change the formulation of the gas, the price goes up. But, it never comes back down. Even when they discover a large oil field it doesn't come back down. They invent a shortage somewhere else to compensate for it and raise the price even more. :bang: Turning up the heat just a little more.

Electing a new president won't help. McCain, Yomomma and Billery are all the same people with the same mindset. They say when the Dems are in power things will change. But, they have already been in power in the Congress for many months now and nothing has changed. It's up to the people to make changes in our own lives. Ok, that's all of the political stuff.

One good thing that has come from this is traffic is much lighter on the highways. People are obviously cutting back on their driving and carpooling more. Many are trading their SUV's in on smaller cars. This will cause a glut and already seems to doing just that. When the oil storage tanks are all full they will have to reduce the price of oil. If this trickles down to a lower price on gas remains to be seen but you would think, it can't hurt. They say the futures market is in a bubble right now and could drop drastically at any time.

The devaluation of our dollar is a big factor in all of this. As the value of our dollar drops, the cost of gas, food, energy and everything else we depend on in our daily lives rises. You can sit around an bitch about the fact that your dollar won't buy what it would a year ago or you can invest in gold or silver or both. When the value of the dollar goes down gold and silver go up as do many other commodities.

There are many changes we can make in our individual lives to make things better but it's up to us as individuals to make those changes and get out of the pot before it's too late.

 

[BadgerMan]

Jay has taken the CD comment WAY out of context.

Civil disobedience needs to be directed at those who are benefiting at our expense, including our (my) state government. If this nonsense continues, it will not be a question of if you will lose your job, it will only be a question of when.

SANTA MONICA, Calif., June 6, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ ----Price Spike Follows Self-Serving Prediction of $150 a Barrel, Israeli Threat Against Iran; U.S. Government Must Speed Market Regulation.

The price of crude oil jumped $11 a barrel on Friday to $138, mostly on the ginning up of news that has nothing to do with current supply and demand, said Consumer Watchdog. The spike followed a prediction by investment bank Morgan Stanley that oil would reach $150 a barrel by July 4, and an Israeli cabinet minister's warning that Israel would attack Iran if Tehran did not stop developing nuclear weapons.

"In the actual physical market for oil, nothing changed between yesterday and today," said Judy Dugan, research director of Consumer Watchdog. "Morgan Stanley knew full well that making the prediction would spike prices, especially by calling for $150 oil in less than a month. As for the Israeli statement, traders instantly grabbed it as a reason to spike prices, even though it appeared to be a calculated warning, not a signal that bombers are about to take off. Obviously, diplomatic nuance means nothing to speculators."

Early in the day, a smaller price rise in crude oil was blamed on a weaker dollar and oil demand in Asia. But, said the nonprofit, nonpartisan Consumer Watchdog, ever-bleaker economic news in the U.S., including rising unemployment, should have pressed the price downward.

"The bottom line of this oil price feeding frenzy is that drivers in the U.S. are likely to suffer $4.50 gasoline, while in California and some other states may hit $5.00 a gallon for regular this summer," said Dugan. "Inflation will keep spiking the price of groceries as well as gas. Congress and the White House have to stop talking and put some emergency regulations on trading markets, including electronic markets that are completely unregulated."

 

[BSWIFT]

Jay has taken the CD comment WAY out of context.

Civil disobedience needs to be directed at those who are benefiting at our expense, including our (my) state government. If this nonsense continues, it will not be a question of if you will lose your job, it will only be a question of when.

I'm totally with you on this. Thanks for the article.