Decisions, Decisions..

[Okiewan]

Well... the subscription thing isn't as successful as I had hoped it would be; I thought $12 was a small enough amount that everyone would jump on it. Some have, but not nearly enough. So.

I'm considering that as of Jan 1, 2003, the program changes. Everyone can still read, but you must subscribe to post. I've had this in mind an an interim step to going full subscription, which I'm trying desperately to avoid.

Of course there will be big-time backlash, but... "oh well". I'm looking for some feedback. What do you all think? Am I making a big mistake?

 

[mhardee]

Originally posted by Okiewan
I'm considering that as of Jan 1, 2003, the program changes. Everyone can still read, but you must subscribe to post. I've had this in mind an an interim step to going full subscription, which I'm trying desperately to avoid. 

That's what a lot of other sites do... Don't see why it would be a big deal.. I still can't figure out why most dont think this is worth a few bucks... I gues there COULD be a lot of teens with no way of paying?

BTW - did you get the PM I sent about the stickers?

 

Mark

 

 

[TVRider]

Okie,

I'm brand new to DRN, but I have already received my $'s worth, I'm considering upgrading. I makes me mad when I see a post from someone too cheap to subscribe. I mean come on!! $12? I you can't afford that, you can't afford to ride!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for maintaining a great site, boot the freeloaders off :|

 

[biglou]

FWIW-Agent Orange mentioned to me just yesterday that he wished this site would go full sub. He also mentioned sending in for his LSTM here in the near future. This from a guy who posts once a month whether he needs to or not!

 

[XRpredator]

I say go for it. If people really want to post, they'll pony up the dough. If not, well, tough titty said the kitty when the milk ran dry.

I freeloaded for a long time, finally ponied up the dough (with a little prod), and I couldn't be happier. I understand your difficulty in making the decision, but hell and damnation! This ain't RMD, where everyone has free reign! This is your house, you do as you please with it. Does anyone complain about Mototalk being a pay to post site? If they do, I sure as hell haven't heard about it.

I know it's harsh, but if they don't want to pay, F*** 'em.

 

[RM_guy]

I don't think you are making a mistake. I think you are to be commended for trying to keep DRN free for as long as you did. The problem is that if it's free some people will never pony up until they are forced to do so. This change will either force them to join or stop coming. I'm sure plenty will still lurk as usual because there is a ton of good info here.

There will definitely be a backlash and I think we (avid supporters) have to really bite our tongues and just let them ramble and rant. Of course the only ones that will be able to post will be subscribers anyway so there shouldn't be too much grief. Shutting down runaway threads soon will be important. We talked about the gang affect before and I think we have to show lots of restraint so we don't push some out that may be on the fence.

My 2 cents...

 

[Kawidude]

I say do it. It may also help weed out some of the "less desirable elements" as well. I would think that would translate to the mods spending less time babysitting people who are only here to cause problems.

 

[slo' mo]

I actually voted no because I'm afraid that the site would lose some of the things that attracted me.  I certainly understand the economics but probably fail to realize the expense of a site this size.

any way to create those 1 month free subscriptions which would give people a chance to post in the general forums, but restrict them from the paid forums (STM/Subscriber/FS/Wanted) until they became a subscriber?

I'm here either way.

PS - I think only STMs should be able to attend DW.  That probably sounds like we are trying to exclude people, but most will spend $100-$200 just in groceries/bike add-ons/new gear/etc...  before they attend.  What would $39 do to their budget???

 

[Tony Eeds]

Wow.  I found this between you posting it and adding the poll.  I thoght for a minute that you were backing away .....

I was talking with Thump about this very issue just last night.

Okie, I agree with you 100% regarding the fact that people should be paying members.  Respecting the fact that a number of people have signed on as subscribers at $12.00 per year, I assume this would be the lowest level of support?

The only real change in your position I would make is to announce on January 1st that your are going to subscription only to post as of (you pick the date).  Give them a few weeks (assuming that cash flow allows it) to anty up.  A fair amount of the heat seems to be related to the suprise and suddeness of the decision a few months back as much as it did the changes.  The old worn-out .... "you gave us no warning" excuse.

Realizing that there are many younger members that don't have independent income, but add to the site, have you considered allowing them to perhaps pay $6.00 per six months or something like that.  Don't know if it would matter, but I never had $12.00 at any one time before I got a car which forced me get a job. :)

I have zero sympathy for the older "registered" members.

One other thought .... Please make it mandatory that you be a paying member of member of a members family in order to attend DirtWeek.  Also, please raise the cost of DirtWeek enough that there is a less than zero chance that you will loose any money on it.

Tony

Remember that about 1 1/2 % of the population provides the majority of the support of the federal government as well, but the IRS doesn't think twice about sticking a hand out to the other 99 or so percent!

 

[MrLuckey]

Originally posted by slo' mo
PS - I think only STMs should be able to attend DW.  That probably sounds like we are trying to exclude people, but most will spend $100-$200 just in groceries/bike add-ons/new gear/etc...  before they attend.  What would $39 do to their budget??? [/B]

HERE HERE, I am with you on that one for sure.

I havent voted yet, still thinking about it.

Well I voted do it - but at the same time I find myself wondering if there will be enough posts, enough traffic , enough quality help/advice to keep the site as attractive to newbies as it is now. I also think that there are a huge number of us here that are family, for someone new, they won't be able to aqcuire that unless they pay first you know. I know some people in the past have hung around for quite awhile before meeting people in person and really getting involved.

I guess if it has to be done it will be both a good thing (weed out the freeloaders and chumps and quiet the signal to noise ratio) but I think it will also possibly slow or stunt the growth of the site. Of course I loved this place back before it hit 1,000 and have never left so...I voted YES

 

[Smit-Dog]

I think that you should do it.

After reading a lot of posts relating to this, my gut feel is that for most people they feel it's worth at least $12, but with human nature being the way it is, just don't make the effort to actually do it.

Given the "right" amount of motivation, i.e. can't post, I think you'll see people signing up in droves.

It also depends on what the potential is for new subscribers. If 90% of the posts are done by members who have already subscribed, then I wouldn't expect a ton more people to sign up. If you're willing/able to post those kind of numbers, I'd be curious to find out what they are. How big is the "untapped" market?

 

[Okiewan]

any way to create those 1 month free subscriptions which would give people a chance to post in the general forums, but restrict them from the paid forums (STM/Subscriber/FS/Wanted) until they became a subscriber?

There has been a free trial (1 week) in place for a while. Several have/do use(d) it.

I'm sure it will run-off a lot of people. I'm beginning to wonder if we really need the one's that would leave? The only real downside is losing the young one's, but they will still be able to read all they want. The old "listen before you open your mouth" thing enforced, lol...

There are negatives no matter what happens... I wish I was wealthy and didn't have to worry about any of this, but as it is, I can only see DRN expenses covered 3 months out at any given time, that's scary! I will not allow this site to go down under any circumstance, I've got WAY too many friends here. It's a lot more than a website. It may change in the future if the various models don't pan-out, but rest assured, it'll always be here. I keep hoping that one of these ideas will work-out and bridge the gap. No, they aren't my ideas, it's happening all over the place, webmasters are all in the same boat it seems. We all keep trying to wait it out and not do anything drastic.

And BTW, RMGuy hit a big point... we've got to bite our tongues if this get's implemented.

 

[bclapham]

Originally posted by RM_guy
We talked about the gang affect before and I think we have to show lots of restraint so we don't push some out that may be on the fence.

RMguy, makes an excellent point, i really hate to see some of those threads, they are the biggest waste of bandwith out there, IMHO. I dont really care for the flame forum either, i know i go in there once in a while, but i try to stay away and feel better for it. some of the threads in there seem like a big waste of bandwidth also.

on the lines of what others have said, what about giving each new member a 1 month free membership to post, this way they will get hooked enough and then pay or decide that it isnt worth it and not bother.

will going to subcription posting limit the number of posts? probably. in turn will this cause a slow down in technical feed back on the bikes etc? that is one issue i find important.

another suggestion is a VIP membership for important people that dont post often One thing i like about this site is the oportunity to speak with real leaders in this motorcycle industry, examples are Prof. Blair and also Wes Gilbert etc, i am sure there are quite a few more. I wonder if they had to subscribe that we would ever hear from them again? Obviously the handing out of a VIP would be at the descresion of the mods.

please dont flame me, just trying to be constructive with my comments.

 

[bclapham]

just to add, i am still sat on the fence with my vote!

also, maybe some people are aware i didnt pay for my membership, but i will be upgrading to LSTM in the new year when the xmas spends are replenished :thumb:

 

[Tony Eeds]

Originally posted by slo' mo
any way to create those 1 month free subscriptions which would give people a chance to post in the general forums, but restrict them from the paid forums (STM/Subscriber/FS/Wanted) until they became a subscriber?

This could cause a dramatic increase in bogus names.  There are a bunch now, IMHO it would only get worse.  I can't keep up with everybody's multiple personalities as it is.  :)  If they can read the forums, but not post, doesn't that fact cover the issue?

I forgot in my other post .... What about a fee to DRN for allowing the sale of items on the site, like Ebay?  Sure it would be factored into the sale price, but I bet it would not reduce the activity.

Some of this goes back to the first thread that I posted in.  We should always tell folks that we heard about them on DRN and thank them by purchasing from advertisers and thank them for their support of our site.

 

[JWW]

Do it...... I also like the idea of subs or friends of subs attending DW.

 

[bclapham]

Originally posted by Tony Eeds
This could cause a dramatic increase in bogus names.  There are a bunch now, IMHO it would only get worse.  I can't keep up with everybody's multiple personalities as it is.  :)  If they can read the forums, but not post, doesn't that fact cover the issue?.

yes there are a few, but you need a proper email address to register, so i am sure most people would get bored of coming up with new email and usernames after a couple of months

 

[Okiewan]

I'd like to add that I've spent the last two months banging my head to come-up with ways to intice folks to join/subscribe and have pretty much drawn a blank. There is only so much a website can do for ya :)

 

[WoodsRider]

It is going to alienate some members that have been here a while yet haven't "bellied up to the bar" and feel this place owes them something.

I'm sure we wouldn't have close to 22,000 members if something like this had been implemented earlier... but how many of those 22k actually contribute. ;)

Go for it, let the whiners whine!

---Woods

 

[JPIVEY]

I'm coming up on two years at DRN,even though I paid for a Life time membership, I feel I'm still ripping you off ,no matter what kind of info I'm looking for I always find it here.

I also belong to a site backed by Nikon,the info there is just as important to me as this site is and I pay for it.


I guess what I'm saying is Do It, If it means enough to them to get excellent info, to meet excellent people to go riding/racing with or just sit and laugh their ass off for hours on end, then they'll want to pay for it

 

[Tony Eeds]

Originally posted by bclapham
another suggestion is a VIP membership for important people that dont post often One thing i like about this site is the oportunity to speak with real leaders in this motorcycle industry, examples are Prof. Blair and also Wes Gilbert etc, i am sure there are quite a few more. I wonder if they had to subscribe that we would ever hear from them again? Obviously the handing out of a VIP would be at the descresion of the mods.

Excellent idea! 

 

[bclapham]

thanks tony! i think having those sort of people posting from time to time is certainly good motivation to pay for subscription, and would hate to see them lost from the forum.

 

[Neil Wig]

I think the VIP idea is great, but how do you make sure the right people know about the VIP privilage? If you can make it work, GREAT.
Go for it - This will limit some of the BS threads that get going, and make the admins job more managable.

 

[XRpredator]

Another note: the XDB downfall. Now, they are talking about putting the site back up. The core of members who still are on the mailing list have mentioned that they would pony up some cash to get it back up and running. I don't know why it should be any different here.

If you don't wanna pay, go to freakin' RMD. 'nuff said.

 

[slo' mo]

Originally posted by JPIVEY
even though I paid for a Life time membership, I feel I'm still ripping you off ,no matter what kind of info I'm looking for I always find it here.

 

Ditto.  Maybe charge everyone per word when they post.  That would definitely cut down on blathering.  Then Irish and Elk would definitley be VIPs.

j/k! :)