I bought a 1985 xr200r that didn't have a decompression cable.Just received new cable attached it but the problem is when I kick it over the dothingy that holds the cable next to the kicker pushes the cable instead of pulling the cable.It is designed to work by pulling the cable I think my Clymer manual is not any help.What makes the dothingy that holds the cable by the kicker move? Will I have to take off the right side kicker cover off to see whats up? Should there be some type of spring to hold the dothingy that holds the cable by the kicker?Thanks for any help! Sorry about the dothingy part but don't know what to call it.
Decompression for XR
- Thread starter agent 86
- Start date
the decompression lever is actuated off of an eccentric lobe on the kickstarter. yes it is in the housing,
why would you want to hook it up? unless you lack the strength ( not an insult) there is really no need for one. I rode Xr's for 10 yrs. ( had an '84,'85,'87,'95). I removed the release on all of them.
make sure you have the lever in the correct orientation. sounds like it is flipped the wrong way. take the cable out and try to easily rotate the lever 180 degrees. don't force it. when you're done use your hand to kick the bike over. if is stops, don't force it as you could break the lever, lobe, or case ( I know from experience). good luck
why would you want to hook it up? unless you lack the strength ( not an insult) there is really no need for one. I rode Xr's for 10 yrs. ( had an '84,'85,'87,'95). I removed the release on all of them.
make sure you have the lever in the correct orientation. sounds like it is flipped the wrong way. take the cable out and try to easily rotate the lever 180 degrees. don't force it. when you're done use your hand to kick the bike over. if is stops, don't force it as you could break the lever, lobe, or case ( I know from experience). good luck
DualSportr
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- Aug 22, 2000
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The reason Honda put the decomp on this bike is because the kickstarter gears are so weak.
It's very important to run this decompressor, unless you want to replace kicker gears frequently (a case split!).
When you kick the bike, which way does the lever on the outside of the case move? It should rotate outward (counter clockwise). If it's going inward, then i think the push rod was installed on the wrong side of the concentric lobe (never seen this happen, but I suppose it's possible!). You'll have to remove the cover and move it to the other side.
It's very important to run this decompressor, unless you want to replace kicker gears frequently (a case split!).
When you kick the bike, which way does the lever on the outside of the case move? It should rotate outward (counter clockwise). If it's going inward, then i think the push rod was installed on the wrong side of the concentric lobe (never seen this happen, but I suppose it's possible!). You'll have to remove the cover and move it to the other side.
i rode two xr's for ten years w/o a decompression cable. absolutely no problems whatsoever. they were actually xlr dual sport. one of which was my only ride in colledge. I put 12,000 miles on the thing in a year (drove from nc to DC and back twice, and across the state many times). the point is that i started the thing at least ten or twelve times a day, every day for several years. and not the slightest problem. I've never heard of the weak gear thing before. the cable would seem to be a bandaid fix. Why not stregnthen the gears. after all they have been around since the stoneage.
o god i remember the smack of the kick starter from my xr200 after about 4 months w/o the compression thing working. on mine i replaced the clutch and the things inside the case were taken of by my friend. it sounds to me like who ever had it switched the auto compression lever to a manual one. id look into this mod.
DualSportr
Member
- Aug 22, 2000
- 527
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Yardpro, I respect the fact that you have experience with two of these bikes.
I've had experience with thousands. I work for a shop that does performance products for four strokes, and we work on tons of XR200's. The weak kickstarter and idler gear are a well-known problem with this engine. It's actually a carry-over from the 125 engine (and the 185).
Anyway, I have a tough time taking advice from a fella who went to college and can't spell the word :debil:
Did you remove the kickstart actuated decomp from the XL's you had, or are you just assuming it wasn't there?
I've had experience with thousands. I work for a shop that does performance products for four strokes, and we work on tons of XR200's. The weak kickstarter and idler gear are a well-known problem with this engine. It's actually a carry-over from the 125 engine (and the 185).
Anyway, I have a tough time taking advice from a fella who went to college and can't spell the word :debil:
Did you remove the kickstart actuated decomp from the XL's you had, or are you just assuming it wasn't there?
as far as the spelling goes, it is more a product of being in a rush. I surely know how to spell. I'll be watching your posts for spelling and grammer . I'll bet an xr that you have typo's and errors as well.
i also work on many bikes, although i'm sure not as many as you, but my lobe was left in. Is the 200 the same as the 250? I assumed it was due to the habbit of most manufacturers to keep production costs down and use the same parts is several models. nevertheless, don't get so touchy, I wasn't doubting your knowledge, just expressing that i am very active in the sport and have done all my work to all of my, and countless others bikes. I have never heard of this problem before. And from a prodiction cost standpoint it doesn't make sense that if you discover that a gear is weak not to just fix the gear. It costs so much more to retool the case half to accept the release mechanism, then retool the head to accept the anm that depresses the rocker arm. then also retool the kickstarter shaft for the lobe assembly, etc.
The gears may indeed be weak, but I doubt that honda ( or any other manufacturer) would spend so much time and $ to fix a pronlem that could simply be resolved by three new gears.
I still cannot believe that the decompression release was designed to make up for weak gears. it was designed for easier starting. the weak gears may very well be true but. i was merely debating the reason you stated for the decompression system
also if you work on so many bikes why do you think a kickstarter gear replacement requires a case split. You only have to remove the clutch cover. there are three gears, the kickstarter, the idler, and the clutch gear. all of which can be accesed fron the side w/o splitting the case ( or is that how your shop makes its money?)
i also work on many bikes, although i'm sure not as many as you, but my lobe was left in. Is the 200 the same as the 250? I assumed it was due to the habbit of most manufacturers to keep production costs down and use the same parts is several models. nevertheless, don't get so touchy, I wasn't doubting your knowledge, just expressing that i am very active in the sport and have done all my work to all of my, and countless others bikes. I have never heard of this problem before. And from a prodiction cost standpoint it doesn't make sense that if you discover that a gear is weak not to just fix the gear. It costs so much more to retool the case half to accept the release mechanism, then retool the head to accept the anm that depresses the rocker arm. then also retool the kickstarter shaft for the lobe assembly, etc.
The gears may indeed be weak, but I doubt that honda ( or any other manufacturer) would spend so much time and $ to fix a pronlem that could simply be resolved by three new gears.
I still cannot believe that the decompression release was designed to make up for weak gears. it was designed for easier starting. the weak gears may very well be true but. i was merely debating the reason you stated for the decompression system
also if you work on so many bikes why do you think a kickstarter gear replacement requires a case split. You only have to remove the clutch cover. there are three gears, the kickstarter, the idler, and the clutch gear. all of which can be accesed fron the side w/o splitting the case ( or is that how your shop makes its money?)
DualSportr
Member
- Aug 22, 2000
- 527
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The XR 200 and the XR 250 (or XL) are COMPLETELY different models.
I'll just list the pertinent items here:
XR 200 runs a kickstart actuated decompressor. There is a concentric lobe that is actuated by the kicker for the first few inches of the kick, this lobe pushes a lever, which is mounted externally on the right engine case. This lever has a cable which goes up to the lever on the head, which in turn opens the exhaust valve slightly.
XR and XL 250 has a camshaft decompressor, and the modern RFVC 250's also have a manual decompressor. This is a more complex design, and also a better one - but completely different from the XR200 setup.
The Kickstarter gears on the XR 200 DO require a case split. They are not accessed through the right side cover like the XR/XL 250 (and most other models).
If you'd like verification on any of these statements, just go to the yamaha of troy website and look at the microfiche.
Yes, the XR200 engine design is antiquated. There are very few changes from the CB/CL/SL 100-125 engine to the XR 185, to the modern XR200. However, Honda designed this as a lightweight, easy to maintain and cheap to build beginner bike. It serves this purpose admirably.
Honda tried to update the XR200 in 1984 and went to a four valve RFVC design which was basically a de-bored and de-stroked XR 250. This engine ended up being too heavy - not enough horsepower to drag the extra (internal) parts around. This model ran for two years, then was discontinued. The 1986 model went back to the two valve design, and it's been the same ever since.
Regarding the ease of upgrading gears instead of installing an unwieldy decompressor, you'll have to talk to Honda about that. I don't know the reasoning behind it, just that 'facts is facts' and these are a weak point on this engine.
Your rude comments regarding the ethics of the business I work for are not worthy of response.
I'll just list the pertinent items here:
XR 200 runs a kickstart actuated decompressor. There is a concentric lobe that is actuated by the kicker for the first few inches of the kick, this lobe pushes a lever, which is mounted externally on the right engine case. This lever has a cable which goes up to the lever on the head, which in turn opens the exhaust valve slightly.
XR and XL 250 has a camshaft decompressor, and the modern RFVC 250's also have a manual decompressor. This is a more complex design, and also a better one - but completely different from the XR200 setup.
The Kickstarter gears on the XR 200 DO require a case split. They are not accessed through the right side cover like the XR/XL 250 (and most other models).
If you'd like verification on any of these statements, just go to the yamaha of troy website and look at the microfiche.
Yes, the XR200 engine design is antiquated. There are very few changes from the CB/CL/SL 100-125 engine to the XR 185, to the modern XR200. However, Honda designed this as a lightweight, easy to maintain and cheap to build beginner bike. It serves this purpose admirably.
Honda tried to update the XR200 in 1984 and went to a four valve RFVC design which was basically a de-bored and de-stroked XR 250. This engine ended up being too heavy - not enough horsepower to drag the extra (internal) parts around. This model ran for two years, then was discontinued. The 1986 model went back to the two valve design, and it's been the same ever since.
Regarding the ease of upgrading gears instead of installing an unwieldy decompressor, you'll have to talk to Honda about that. I don't know the reasoning behind it, just that 'facts is facts' and these are a weak point on this engine.
Your rude comments regarding the ethics of the business I work for are not worthy of response.
you started ith ugliness with this comment-
and back to the xl models you're absolutely wrong. up until 87 the xl had the same kickstarter actuated compression release. the two bike that I rode forever were an '84 and an '87. the first and last year of the same model. the only changes were BNG ( bold new graphics).
they were rfvc also.
I just looked up an exploded diagram of the xr 200. How do you figure that you have to split the cases? all three of the related gears are on the outside of the crankcase
DualSportr
Member
- Aug 22, 2000
- 527
- 0
Kickstart idler gear on the mainshaft is the culprit. It is a case split to fix.
You have yet to tell me, did you own a 250 or a 200?
You have yet to tell me, did you own a 250 or a 200?
84xl250r, 87xl250r, 85 xr250r, 95xr250r.
on the 250's (xl's) the idle gear on the mainshaft has a circlip holding the idle gear on the shaft. How do you get the idle gear on the shaft? the gear will no pull through the case. you have to be able to remove the gear from outside the case to remove the shaft from the case itself.
i would link you to partsfish, but they only go back to '95.
the microfiesh shows the idler gear on the outside of the case W/ a circlip retaining it onto the shaft
on the 250's (xl's) the idle gear on the mainshaft has a circlip holding the idle gear on the shaft. How do you get the idle gear on the shaft? the gear will no pull through the case. you have to be able to remove the gear from outside the case to remove the shaft from the case itself.
i would link you to partsfish, but they only go back to '95.
the microfiesh shows the idler gear on the outside of the case W/ a circlip retaining it onto the shaft
DualSportr
Member
- Aug 22, 2000
- 527
- 0
Yardpro, you are correct. I am sorry, I missed the fact that Agent 86 is working with the RFVC 200. My mistake. The engine I'm referring to is, of course the two valve 200, which does require a case split to install new kicker gears, and does have weak ones.
The RFVC 200 is essentially the same engine as the 250, and as such, does not require the decompressor.
Sorry for my mistake.
The RFVC 200 is the same as the '85 XR250R that you owned in all but displacement. Since you've dealt with this engine more than I have, I hand it back to your capable hands.
Yardpro, this is a four valve (says RFVC on the head) 200 that you're working with?
The RFVC 200 is essentially the same engine as the 250, and as such, does not require the decompressor.
Sorry for my mistake.
The RFVC 200 is the same as the '85 XR250R that you owned in all but displacement. Since you've dealt with this engine more than I have, I hand it back to your capable hands.
Yardpro, this is a four valve (says RFVC on the head) 200 that you're working with?
not a problem. Didn't mean to be argumentative, but i've been into mine quite a bit. I do not currently own one, I've moved to a cr250 and am mx'ing now. we have a lack of trails in the area. The ones we have are pure sand ( outer banks of NC). I know the 250's inside and out. The 200's I have not very much time with. The 84 was a 4 valve RFVC. I assume the '85 200 thatagent 86 has is the same. In 85 the Xr had a change from the dual carb to a single carb. the intake and I believe the head is different. I believe that the bore and stroke also changed that year also. I don't know if that year had lever actuated comp. release or not. the xl however retained the dual carb and kick starter acutated comp. release.
blah blah blah.
dualsportr-
hope you're not upset with me. the pre RFVC are totaly alien to me and I am sure you are undoubtedly correct about those.
blah blah blah.
dualsportr-
hope you're not upset with me. the pre RFVC are totaly alien to me and I am sure you are undoubtedly correct about those.
DualSportr
Member
- Aug 22, 2000
- 527
- 0
No problem, thanks for accepting the apology.
They only made the RFVC 200 for 2 years, so I always assume people are talking about the two valve model (same as they make today). I guess I should remember what happens when you ass u me! :)
They only made the RFVC 200 for 2 years, so I always assume people are talking about the two valve model (same as they make today). I guess I should remember what happens when you ass u me! :)
